Talk:Sydney Omarr

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Suggested changes to the SYDNEY OMARR listing in Wikipedia

These additions are suggested by Jeraldine Saunders, Sydney's wife.

Jeraldine Saunders has been writing his column since Sydney passed away four years ago (2002). The column appears worldwide. He was paralyzed from the neck down When he died, Jeraldine was at his side, He wrote thirteen books every year (the twelve zodiac signs and an all-in-one book) and, even after he went blind, he recorded his call-in nine hundred number with the help of Jeraldine, nurse Paul Small and Velery Barboux (his secretary), who told him where the planets were that day. “We would tap him on the shoulder when he was to start talking and two taps when he was to stop,” Jeraldine recounted. He made the recordings “without notes and never faltered for a word,” she added.

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. IRWolfie- (talk) 17:52, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Instead of removing the words or sections that you believe are in breach of copyright, you have removed four good sources without explanation and left the article in a mess with duplication. The text has been drawn from six different sources and without any Original Research. Can you identify which parts were, in your view, in breach of copyright? If so, these sections can be removed or edited. Also, what rule states that interesting facts that don't fit into the main body copy cannot be included? Maxkingesq (talk) 21:51, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

• "15, he saw a movie called "Shanghai Gesture" starring Victor Mature as a character named Omar, with one "r."", copied from [1].

• LA Times: "Aiming to increase his chances for success, he changed the "i" to "y" in his first name and adopted Omar as his last name, but added a second "r,"both in accordance with certain numerological formulas."

your text: "To optimize his chance for success he followed numerological formulas to change the "i" to "y" in his first name and added a second "r" to his adopted last name, Omarr"

• His career began to take off after he enlisted in the Army at 17. Omar was sent to Okinawa during World War II, where his weekly Armed Forces Radio program "Sydney Omarr's Almanac" predicted the outcomes of professional boxing matches and horse races" [2]

Your text: "At the age of 17, Omarr enlisted in the Army and was sent to Okinawa during World War II. Here he was able to specialize in astrology and his weekly Armed Forces Radio Program "Sydney Omarr's Almanac", broadcast throughout the Pacific Theatre predicted the outcomes of professional boxing matches and horse races."

• "After his discharge, Mr. Omarr attended journalism courses at Mexico City College and went on to become a reporter for United Press and a radio news director and editor for CBS in Hollywood." [3]

• "When Omarr completed his stint in the Army, he studied journalism at Mexico City College. He went on to become a reporter for the United Press and a radio news director and editor for CBS Hollywood."

Insufficient paraphrasing and actual copy and pasting. IRWolfie- (talk) 22:17, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

When you are writing text: read the source. Internalize it. Write it in your own words. Don't simply re-arrange the existing words a bit or change the text. Otherwise it's either a copyright violation or plagiarism. See WP:COPYVIO, Wikipedia:PLAGIARISM, and WP:PARAPHRASE. IRWolfie- (talk) 22:28, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

OK thanks - there was no copy and pasting and some of the words that you have highlighted army, Okinawa, World War II, Armed Forces Radio program "Sydney Omarr's Almanac" are unavoidable and obviously not copyright. But I agree the construction of those sentences should, could and will be rewritten. I was attempting to report the information as faithfully as possible as the alternative could be seen be as original research or synthesizing the information.

Can you explain why you disagreed with the subheading of "Career as Writer and Media Astrologer" - he was a prolific writer and sold 50 million books, plus 200 daily newspaper columns and he was a media astrologer. Maxkingesq (talk) 22:42, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

"he was able to do full planetary horoscopes in his head when given an individual's birth coordinates and birth time" sounds like a rather large claim but it's unsourced. I think this would require a high quality source per WP:EXCEPTIONAL.Also, when you are writing the material just make sure you aren't making points that aren't in the source or combining info from different sources together. IRWolfie- (talk) 23:10, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree - totally unsourced and WP:EXCEPTIONAL! When I spotted it I put a next to it (along with other doubtful claims) and was planning on removing the words if no one was able to give it a source in the near future. Unfortunately when you reverted all my editing, you reinstated this original claim unchallenged. None of my material is unsourced or interpreted or synthesized. It would have been less work for us and less confusing if you had alerted me to the three sentences. The original was in serious need of a clean-up and your suggestions are helpful but I don't think that any of these sentences constitute serious copyright violation - just a need to improve the article. Maxkingesq (talk) 23:31, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

These aren't the only issues of copyvio, I just stopped looking after three. IRWolfie- (talk) 23:47, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

I don't believe there are any others. I can't spot them from the sources - you're welcome to check. Anything is possible given the state of the original version. Keep in mind that there are only so many ways to describe something like his name change. Maxkingesq (talk) 00:07, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

I changed it to move further away from the source. The wording in this article is still excessively close to the sources. IRWolfie- (talk) 00:06, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

You also need to be careful not to overlink. IRWolfie- (talk) 23:59, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - your changes have improved the content especially the numerology/name change section. As you will see from the history, the overlinking (book, army, publish etc) was inherited and I would like to believe I too would have removed it at some stage. I am not at this stage sure how to improve the section on Celebrity Status. The names of the celebrities are in the public domain so the lists cannot and should not be selectively altered. The one sentence that might be contentious is "... framed photographs of Omarr with various celebrities such as Jayne Mansfield, Angie Dickinson, Henry Miller and Aldous Huxley adorned his Westside apartment. ..." which comes from "The walls of his Westside apartment are covered with framed photographs of him with celebrities such as actresses Angie Dickinson and Jayne Mansfield, and authors Aldous Huxley and Henry Miller." Would adding these names to the other celebrities (without mentioning photos and his Westside apartment) or removing this item solve the copyvio issue or is it something else? The point of his celebrity status has been clearly made. Maxkingesq (talk) 09:43, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Ah, sorry about the overlinking comment then. I'm not sure what to do with the celebrity section, I'd suggest looking at some featured biographies about entertainers etc and see what they do? I wasn't sure what the source said, though the wording suggested it was taken directly from a source, that was why I tagged it. I'd suggest just summarizing the main point that he knew many celebrities: "He was friendly with movie actresses and various celebrities." Rather than trying to essentially duplicate the reference, IRWolfie- (talk) 11:29, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

Lastly, I didn't put it in but I thought this comment improves the tone lest anyone reading this takes him too seriously: "Jeraldine Saunders, ... remembered his wit in an interview with The Los Angeles Times. When we were flying around the world together he'd say, 'Remember Jeraldine, if this plane goes down, tell them I predicted it. What do you think? Maxkingesq (talk) 09:45, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

I have cut back the Celebrity Status back. Maxkingesq (talk) 13:25, 20 November 2012 (UTC)