Talk:Sybil Gordon

Information on later life?

Can anyone obtain further information on Gordon's later life in Canada? A Sybil Gordon is listed as having married a Clair Kennedy in Canada [1] [2], and a Sybil Gordon Kennedy is listed as having been cremated in Calgary in July 1973 [3]. Soprano Sybil Gordon would likely have died in the 1960s or 1970s, but the preceding information does not indicate whether Sybil Gordon Kennedy is the same person. Softlavender (talk) 04:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Update: The wife of Clair Kennedy was not the soprano Sybil Gordon. The former (b. July 21, 1923) lived and died in South Dakota. I don't have any further information about the Sybil Gordon Kennedy who died in Canada in 1973. Softlavender (talk) 04:26, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

You could try writing to David Stone, dstone4@cox.net who created the Who Was Who bios of both Gordon and Evers. He might be able to give you further leads from his old research on the two of them. All the best, -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:16, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

K, thanks Ssilvers. Softlavender (talk) 04:56, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Belated update: When I contacted David back in mid-November, he didn't have any more info than we did, and asked if we had found anything further about her. Since Tim has since added such extensive and helpful information (thanks, Tim, well done and very much appreciated!), I'll direct David to this newly expanded article. Softlavender (talk) 01:59, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

OK, sounds good. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:54, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Chorus

Hi Silvers et al., about "performing" versus "singing" in the opening sentence of the Career section: I've been wanting to change this from the very outset, but was afraid to lest you be upset. If your reasoning in using the verb "perform" was to lessen the amount of times that the verb "sing" is used, the switch still keeps that intact -- in fact, it's more helpful to switch, since "sing" is then not used twice in succession.

The use of "perform" in the sentence about the chorus is problematical to me, since lots of non-opera fans are going to be viewing this article because of its link from the Chariots of Fire and Harold Abraham articles. Most people's (that is, people not familiar with opera) conception of a chorus girl is rightfully one who dances but does not sing. Therefore there's lack of clarity and possible confusion about whether Gordon sang while she was in the chorus. I'd like to make that crystal clear, for the reader's sake.

That's my reasoning. Plus, we retain your goal of not using the same verb each time, so nothing is lost. How important is using "perform" first to you (and if it is important, why)? Its about a 9 on a scale of 10 important to me to use "sing" in that sentence, and has been from the outset, for the reasons given. All in good faith ... ~~ Softlavender (talk) 09:02, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for using the talk page. Now the article is crystal clear that she was a singer, not a dancer. -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:32, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

References

Specifically in re the Iolanthe broadcast. Is it better to quote (as now) the universally accessible but, so to speak, second-hand ref at the G&S Archive site or a less accessible but first-hand one, namely The Times, 22 February 1930, p. 18? Not sure what best practice is on such matters or where in WP it is covered. - Tim riley (talk) 13:07, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Both sources are "secondary" sources. The G&S Discography has been shown to be a reliable source at FAC, so we can use it without worrying. I like to cite the Discography, because it gives the background of each recording and links to related items. I added the Times cite also, but does it add anything to the Chris Webster information? All the best, -- Ssilvers (talk) 15:35, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

No, really - one or the other is fine, as long as there is no WP standard on such matters. Tim riley (talk) 18:30, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Tim, but I don't have the Times article in front of me. Does it add more information not contained in the Discography article? If not, you can remove the Times cite, but if it has more of interest, let's cite them both. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:01, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Both refs are identical in content: my question was which was better to cite. I have expunged The Times one. Tim riley (talk) 20:02, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

OK. Since the Discography cite has the advantage of giving information about the related broadcasts, I'd say the Discography cite is the better one. All the best! -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:38, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

"actress" in lead

I don't see any indication in the article that Gordon was an actress. All of her listed credits are from singing. Since singing in opera/operetta does not constitute being an actress (all opera and operetta singers obviously do a bit of acting in their operas, but that does not make them actresses), and since she has no acting credits, I propose deletion of this word in the lead, as I consider it misleading. No other opera-singer articles in WP contain the word "actress", that I'm personally aware of. Thanks. Softlavender (talk) 05:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

I think that performing in operetta does constitute being an actor. In G&S, Victor Herbert, Friml, etc., the acting is arguably as important as the singing. Many roles in G&S are primarily acting roles. However, I don't mind identifying her in the first sentence as a "singer", particularly as she also did a lot of concert singing. I'm not sure what exactly she did on the radio, but it seems reasonable to guess that it was singing. Since you, Tim and I have been the primary editors on this article, I've gone ahead and made the change as you suggested. I am sure Tim won't mind in this case. Best regards, -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:37, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Much love, Softlavender (talk) 06:34, 3 March 2010 (UTC)