Talk:Sweet Home Alabama/Archive 1

Archive 1

Neil Young

It should be noted that Van Zant was a friend and admirer of Neil Young, and that "Sweet Home Alabama" was meant to be a good natured response ... Also, the mention of Watergate is a reference to Wallace's presidential Candidacy.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.214.201.153 (talk) 13:59, 20 April 2005‎ (UTC)

Bad description

This article seem rather inaccurate from what I have heard about Skynyrd and the song. First problem is that says the song praises George Wallace. Both from what I can hear from the song and from what I have read in interviews etc., the song is denouncing Wallace, not praising him. The line goes "In Birmingham they loved the governor", followed by a refrain of "boo boo boo", which is usually negative. The next line goes "Now we all did what we could do", which sounds like it's implying they did what they could to keep Wallace out of office.

The second problem is the claim that the song is in support of Watergate; this is even more ridiculous. Skynyrd mention Watergate in order to point out that the North isn't completely blameless itself and so perhaps Northerners should stop being so judgemental. "Watergate does not bother me, does your conscience bother you?" is there to tell Neil Young that Southerners don't go around singing songs about the Watergate scandal, so maybe Young should lay off them.

Considering Van Zant's interest in numerous African-American music artists and the complete lack of sense it would make to randomly praise the Watergate scandal in a pro-Southern song, I think this explanation of the song makes a lot more sense.--Zoso Jade 18:45, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Interesting points. My opinion is that in the interest of verifiability, the article needs to refrain from interpreting the song at all. If we want to quote the songwriter talking about his intentions, that's great as long as it's properly sourced. It'd be great to avoid "many people claim" type of sentences if possible. Friday 19:01, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the above writer, Friday. The article's author obviously has his/her own interpretation, which is fine. The author seems intent on slanting it one way. I think the better course is to leave the interpretation to the listener of the song.

My opinion on the interpretation is that you can't separate the 'Governor' and 'Watergate' lyrics. The whole point is not to make an outright political statement and disect what Van Zant is saying, but to cause a personal examination. Hence the last line, "Does your conscious bother you?", which ties both verses together. You have to peel the onion beyond the two political examples. The point of the verse is being careful about throwing stones: we all have our issues. Not so ironically this is EXACTLY why all of the political opinions or interpretations need to be removed from the article. Simply say that the song continues to spark debate, which is the genius of the song. [Non-registered user; 7/11/06]

I agree that this line is not complimentary of Wallace. When I worked in Birmingham in the 1990's, an older native of Birmingham explained to me that the city had NOT supported Wallace during one if his political campaigns, and as a result, Wallace would not send highway funds to Birmingham, and the city streets were full of potholes. Therefore, natives of Birmingham interpreted the line "Birmingham loves the governor" as tongue-in-cheek, particularly when paired with the following line of "We all did what we could do," which implies that they did not want to see him elected. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.18.173.101 (talk) 20:25, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Apparently Birmingham heavily supported incumbent Albert Brewer over George Wallace in the 1970 Democratic primary. http://www.ourcampaigns.com/RaceDetail.html?RaceID=79752 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.18.173.101 (talk) 16:36, 18 October 2012‎ (UTC)

The "Governor" Lines

The explanation of the "they love the governor" verse makes sense, but what about the line near the end of the song ("Where the skies are so blue / and the governor's true"). That sounds to me like a positive statement about him.

Also, I think you could read the "we all did what we could do" line differently--perhaps as a statement that they did what they could do to prevent integration. Under this interpretation, "Watergate does not bother me" could mean that Southerners are looking on with satisfaction while the Northerners who harassed them are mired in scandal. The only words that don't make any sense under this reading are "boo boo boo," unless you interpret these to be meaningless sounds.

RE "and the governor's true" - I took this as another attack on Richard Nixon Conch Shell 30 June 2005 08:04 (UTC)

I'm not sure that this line is supposed to be tied to Nixon. But if it is, then it undercuts the theory that the song is bashing Wallace, doesn't it? It seems a bit of a stretch to read the song as saying "Wallace is bad, but at least he's 'true', unlike Nixon, who is worse because he's not 'true'."

I think Van Zant is basically saying "Our Governor may be a bigot but at least he's honest, unlike your President." Conch Shell 1 July 2005 16:24 (UTC)

I second Conch's theory... it makes more sense under this explanation of the song. --Zoso Jade 18:45, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Not sure how Nixon became a Northerner - he was from California.--Jack Upland 02:36, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

'Northern' refers to the seat of power. Conch Shell 08:59, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

Which part of the lyrics say this?--Jack Upland 02:09, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

We're talking about their interpretation. Conch Shell 10:09, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

I think you should consult Occam's razor. By the way, 'true' referring to a person doesn't mean 'honest' but 'loyal and faithful'. And we know what George 'Segregation Forever' Wallace was faithful to.--Jack Upland 02:13, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

It does in the US - checkout the Budweiser adverts. Conch Shell 09:08, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

I've removed the boo-boo lines because:

• The words aren't included in the lyrics on the band's official site
• There isn't even agreement that that's what they are singing (sounds like woo-hoo-hoo to me)

Jgm 04:40, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

It's all a little tricky, because it's "they love the governor / we all did what we could do." It's not clear if the first-person singer is saying that he himself loves the governor. - Jmabel | Talk 22:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I can't even believe there is an argument. The lines are blatantly "boo boo boo", if you can't hear that in even the most casual listen to the song you need to see a doctor. As an Aussie, I didnt really understand the significance of those lines until hearing of this debate. Surely this yet another example of Yanks looking for any excuse at all to badmouth the south. Good on LS for sticking it to those hypocritical northerners.--ABVS 05:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I have heard the song many times, and it sounds to me like "Boo, hoo, hoo!" and not "Boo, boo, boo!" --Revolver66 19:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Again, find something citable. - Jmabel | Talk 21:28, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The refrain has been alternately listed as either "boo, boo, boo," or "boo, hoo, hoo," indicating that while they loved Wallace in Birmingham, that sentiment was not shared by all Alabamans.

As for the Watergate line, has it ever ocurred to anyone that it could allude back to Young's song "Ohio?" and perhaps asks why anyone should be surprised at a President who had command responsibility during the massacre of four civilians at Kent State would stoop to breaking and entering the Democratic Party's national headquarters.

And, how anyone could support the man given his past actions.

In other words, while not every white person in Alabama, let alone every Southerner, supported Wallace given what he'd done, those, such as Young, who paint all Southerners with such broad strokes, gave their support to a man unworthy of being our Chief Executive not just once, but twice.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.69.139.141 (talk) 19:12, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

"those, such as Young, who paint all Southerners with such broad strokes, gave their support to a man unworthy of being our Chief Executive not just once, but twice"

Seriously? You're suggesting that Young voted for Nixon? You do realise that he's Canadian, and he openly criticised Nixon even before Watergate? 128.250.102.69 (talk) 08:31, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

All this just illustrates that fans of the song will say anything rather than admit it supports George Wallace.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:34, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Natural Beauty and Muscle Shoals

Much of "Sweet Home Alabama" sings the praises of Alabama's natural beauty

The only example of this I can find in the lyrics is that the sky is blue (hardly unique to Alabama). Unless someone else can find anything else, I propose this be deleted. It's just part of the attempt to play down the political nature of this song.

Secondly, what is the significance of Muscle Shoals recording Afro-American artists? This isn't mentioned in the song, is it?

It's significant because it acknowledges the contribution of African-Americans to Alabama culture. The song doesn't mention that the governor was a segregationist either, but people have seized on this point. Conch Shell 10:59, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

All this rebel BS - but no one wants to stick to their guns!--Jack Upland 03:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

"The lyrics also express admiration for the music from Muscle Shoals studios, which mainly produced recordings by African-American artists."

On further investigation, this is false so I've removed it from the article. The song refers to the Swampers, a nickname for the Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section, who have been described as "four white boys". The fact that the studio recorded black performers is a red herring.

How many rock songs mention politicians anyway? Wallace was a world famous segregationist and I'm sure Lynyrd Skynyrd knew this.--Jack Upland 02:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Which is probably why the words:

In Birmingham they love the governor

Are followed by the backing-singers singing:

Boo, Boo, Boo

Conch Shell 09:16, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that's probably meaningless mouth-music. How do you explain the later line 'And the governor's true'? And why mention Wallace if the intention is to boo him? Surely this would only detract from the image of 'Sweet Home Alabama'. None of these attempts to rescue the song from its pro-Segregationist tone deal with the lyrics as a whole.--Jack Upland 02:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

This has already been discussed in The "Governor" Lines section. Lynyrd Skynyrd made it clear that they condemned segregation in the lyrics to Things Goin' On. Conch Shell 10:48, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

True. But you brought it up. I have demonstrated that the discussion of 'Natural Beauty' and 'Muscle Shoals' in the original article were false. In fact, much of the discussion has NOTHING to do with the actual song. And bringing up a different song is also totally irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant when the subject matter overlaps. Conch Shell 09:29, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the truth is that Lynyrd and their fans - as shown in this article - have been backing away from the song ever since it was released. Doesn't change the original song.--Jack Upland 02:38, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

There's nothing to back away from - even Neil Young performed the song on stage. Conch Shell 09:14, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I wonder if Peter Andre will record a version of the song called 'Sweet Home Cronulla'? Barnaby Wild 16:48, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I guess Neil Young didn't think that verse referred to him...--Jack Upland 00:57, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Or he realized that it was a good natured response Conch Shell 12:55, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

It just sounds like they attempted to reconcile later. What does "good natured" really mean? Issues like segregation and lynching hardly lend themselves to "good natured" banter. Once again there's just a state of denial about the lyrics.--Jack Upland 23:17, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

"good natured" refers to Van Zant's attitude to Young's criticisms. Are you implying Young condoned segregation and lynchings by performing the song? Conch Shell 10:12, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

As I said, it sounds like they tried to reconcile. That's got nothing to do with the content of the song.--Jack Upland 02:33, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Whether the "Muscle Shoals" reference has anything to do with race relations or not, it's a component of the song and should be addressed. A reader of the article will at least understand what the reference means; at the present point, 08.10.06, that would not happen with the article as it stands. I'm from Alabama and I have to explain to people what the reference means, as Muscle Shoals no longer has the cachet it had in the time period in which the song debuted. Gorjus 17:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC), 10 August 2006.

Also did a few minor grammatical clean-ups and sources the Muscle Shoals reference to the Alabama Hall of Fame. Gorjus 17:19, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Several Problems

The Watergate dispute has been resolved, ok. In the song, "Boo, boo, boo" is not in the actual lyrics, but Van Zant ad-libbed that, and that obviously doesn't show support for Wallace. So it's confusing that they say "the governor's true," because that does sound like support for him. We should just say that it's unclear what they mean by that, since they seem to contradict their feelings toward Wallace in the song.--WatchHawk 18:37, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't see how Watergate has been resolved. Your change of "support" to "criticism" (of Wallace) doesn't make sense so I've changed it back. The controversy has been generated by the apparent support of Wallace (whether or not this is true) and that's what the intro refers to. Anyway, the theme of the song is summed up in the title, "Sweet Home Alabama", and I fail to see why there would be repeated references to the Governor if he was considered a blemish on the state. As discussed before the "booing" is ambiguous.--Jack Upland 03:23, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

The two references to Wallace are only problematic if you assume that the song is intended only as unequivocal praise of Alabama. Many listeners do interpret the song in this way, but that's not the only reasonable interpretation. The song might have been intended to mean that Alabama is great DESPITE its flaws, like having Wallace as governor, and an attempt to point out that while "In Birmingham they love the governor" not all Alabamans support him (the booing, which I do not consider ambiguous, and "We all did what we could do"). I favor this interpretation myself. One could even read the song as being a slam at Alabama that sarcastically praises the state by mentioning that the "governor's true" when that governor is a notorious racist. I doubt this was the original intent, but I could easily imagine a modern left-wing artist singing a similar song (in America the skies are so blue and the President's true) and intending it to be both anti-Bush and a criticism of American complaceny. CKarnstein 03:53, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

The lyrics "Boo! boo! boo!" (complete with chords, F C D) after the governor reference are in the "Lynyrd Skynryd Greatest Hits" songbook for piano/vocal/guitar, published by Hal Leonard. In the songbook the song is credited as "Words and Music by RONNIE VAN ZANT, ED KING, and GARY ROSSINGTON" (capitalization theirs). The copyright date for the song is given as 1974. Note that it doesn't say "rearranged by" or "additional lyrics by". Therefore one must conclude that, even if the "Boo boo boo" line was not part of the song when first performed (unclear), it was added shortly thereafter, and is the "definitive" line now. If somebody else can provide an official (preferably printed) source showing the lyrics as "woo woo woo" or something else, I'd love to see it. 13:58, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

So how does this fit with the rest of the lyrics? Were they attempting to run away from their original song, as previously suggested?--Jack Upland 09:01, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The "boo boo boo" interjection is not, in fact, included in the lyrics at the official Lynyrd Skynyrd website [1]. Sheet music for pop/rock songs is generated by third parties and what they chose to include should not be taken as reflecting the intent of the songwriters. In any event, the article as currently worded (. . . includes lyrics which have sometimes been interpreted as expressing support of then-Governor George Wallace and later a lengthy paragraph detailing all sides of the controversy) is completely factually accurate and does not claim to know the actual intent of the songwriters. Jgm 11:11, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I think the fact that the album cover is of a confederate flag says it all. It has been a method of antagonation for blacks for a hundred years. This certainly was the view in the mid 1970s. The whole "the flag is a symbol of our culture" thing has never held up in argument.--Mark 2000 20:18, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps it dosen't hold up, but many *did* and still do buy that argument and innocently use it without harboring any ill intent to other races. Perception is "reality" and therefore the use of the Confederate flag does not "say it all." - anon

The official website doesn't include the "I said excuse me" line on Gimme Three Steps either. I know Wallace was a segregationist, but think...did he do anything for the state? (I mean, he can't have spent years in Montgomery saying "keep the niggers out!") I am not racist, just a thought...

Wallace was famous for being a segregationist; this is what he was 'true' to. And this occurs in the context of the song which attacks Neil Young's portrayal of the South as racist.--Jack Upland 03:44, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Many blacks would tell you they "prefer" a racist who is upfront rather than one who pretends to be their friend while holding racist postitions, at least in the former case you are prepared and are not subject to falling into the trap of trusting. In other words, the lyrics could simply mean at least in the South the racists are clear, while in the North you hide your racism behind a facade of tolerance and therefore cause even more damage. - anon

For what it's worth I'm not a Northerner.--Jack Upland 05:51, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Is it confirmed that the lines actually are "and the governer's true?" I always thought this line was in fact "where the skies are so blue (and the governers, too)", which if anything shows support for the democrats. Which I'll agree makes a lot less sense in the states than it does in Australia where blue is the colour of the Liberals (centre-conservatives). At any rate. Is this adlibbed line confirmed?--ABVS 05:18, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

The Red=Republicans, Blue=Democrats thing is fairly recent (I think Reagan states were shown as blue in the 84 election, at least on one channel) so since the song is from 1974 I don't expect that this is the case.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 167.181.12.201 (talk • contribs) 22 February 2007.

Song Tune & Name

Personally i think that it's just a great song that should be appreciated and not criticized for its content, who cares if they like a governor that wants segregation, who cares about any of this, its just a great song and we should remember the dead not by saying that they are good or bad, but just by appreciating themCharliejr 17:22, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

So listen to the song and don't look it up in an encyclopedia!--Jack Upland 02:43, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

yeah, i was just looking for lyrics, but personally to me it sounds like he wrote the song while going back to Alabama in the tour bus (hence big wheels keep on turning, and the various lyrics that stated, lord I'm coming home to you, and here i come Alabama) and was just reminiscing about his home state, the Neil young line was just defending his and his states honor. as far as the governor part goes, if he was reminiscing more than likely it was a different governor in the time he remembered and therefore the lines would go smoothly. i would think if you found the years that he was living in Alabama and looked for what governor was there at the time you would find a true, honest, and very likeable man that would fit the song perfectly. but then there is the Watergate thing, to me it sounds like again he is just sticking up for his home state. as far as muscle shoals go maybe it was one of the inspirations to him to start his music, he even states that they pick him up when hes blue which coalesces with my point of them inspiring him. also in reply to your comment, i actually was listening to the song at the time.Charliejr 03:13, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

None of the individuals listed as authors of the some were from Alabama, nor did they ever live in Alabama. They were Floridians, except for Ed King, who was from California. Ed originally was in the Strawberry Alarm Clock (Incense Peppermint). This doesn't detract from their ability to write a song about Alabama, but to say that they were writing a song about returning to "their" state is erroneous.

I grew up listening to this song. It was released when I was nine years old and I have lived in Alabama all of my life. We did not view the song as a condemnation or approval of segregation/racism. We viewed the verses about Neil Young as trying to tell him (and others) to keep their noses out of the South because they needed to clean up their own house first before the came down here telling us how dirty ours was. Segregation existed everywhere in the US, only in the South it was by law (de jure) and in the North it was by common agreement (de facto) of residents. None-the-less, the outcome was the same-blacks went to one school, whites to another. To have a Northerner come down here and tell us to change our ways while the same thing was going on up north, only by different means, was galling to us. I remember well the riots by white Bostonians protesting forced busing ten years after it had been first imposed on the South. And they were supposed to be the "enlightened" ones.

Birmingham did love the Governor, as did the rest of the state, although personally I could not stand him and did not vote for him later on. George Wallace, by the early 1970's had backed away from his overt racial politics. George was a true populist-he said and did what he thought would get him elected. By 1973 (and earlier), he pretty much had realized that "standing in the schoolhouse door" would not get him elected to national office and so he had moderated his views, which were, by various accounts, pro-civil rights earlier in his life. His views supposedly changed in the 1950's when he was defeated by John Patterson for governor, who remained racist in true form most of his life.

Watergate does not bother me, especially when compared to the lie told by LBJ in 1964 to entangle us even more deeply into Vietnam. When compared to that, Watergate truly does not bother me either. I see the verse as saying that, yes, Nixon lied to the country, but "let he who is without guilt cast the first stone" and we now know that there was plenty to go around.

The Muscle Shoals verse is simply a verse about a recording studio on the Tennessee River that had session players that were friends to the group.

Best Regards,

Jeff

Sorry to be repetitive, but none of these comments properly acknowledge the content of the song. I don't see why Neil Young, a Canadian, should accept the blame for what happened in Boston. I don't see what the connection is to Watergate - or the Vietnam War. And finally I don't see why they mentioned Wallace if they didn't want to stand defiantly in favour of his politics.--Jack Upland 06:12, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

PS Why was the section "Summing Up" deleted from this page?--Jack Upland 00:05, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Epistemologically, Jack, your statements contain an increasingly large stance of bias. You attempt through logical elimination to demonstrate that Skynyrd was expressing support of Wallace. It gives your argument a slant which demonstrates some kind of bias you wish to inject into it. In my honest opinion, I think that this whole site must be resolved fully by eliminating all sources of this bias. All references to content must be axed, and only fully referenced and accurate statements be left within its contents. Wallace, segregation and Watergate do not add to the artistic or factual value of the song or its description, and do not belong cross referenced within this article. As a responsible community of users of this public domain, we must remember that we propogate facts, NOT conspiracy. 19:20, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

No conspiracy theory, just a wish that the cultural references in the song be explained. In my opinion it is biased to "axe" any references to Wallace etc. (Incidentally, I only came upon this article when trying to find out why the song was considered racist, so in fact I had no preconceived opinions.)--Jack Upland 09:16, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

No preconceived notions? From the increasing rancor of your rhetoric it is apparant you have a anti-Southern bias, and that notion is preconceived enough that seeing a discussion about a pro-South song would bring out relevant preconcieved biases that would end up fitting despite your claimed ignorance about the song anyway. - Anon

Yes, my rancour did increase in the course of this editing process in reaction to the 'weasel words' approach of the self-proclaimed defenders of the song (who don't appear to be Southerners anyway).--Jack Upland 05:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Factual Inaccuracy?

Can someone list the supposed inaccuracies? It appears to be a case of fans not liking the song criticised or even analysed.--Jack Upland 00:13, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd support Jack Upland's comment. The article looks fine to me - interesting, analytical, and open to different interpretations of the song. One thing, though - that "Boo, boo, boo" may not be in the official lyrics, but it's clear as day on the track. Nmg20 23:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

CMT

CMT had this song at #1 on their countdown of greatest southern rock songs. Should that be included?--Yugioh73036 16:24, 6 July 2006 (UTC)Yugioh73036

Agreed, should be added.Zchris87v 07:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I put it in.--Yugioh73036 16:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)Yugioh73036

another problem with the factual accuracy is that none of the band members are from alabama. someone mentioned that they were returning to their home state, but since they were from jacksonvill, fl this claim is false. they had recently been in alabama to record their album, and they wrote this song to thank the great people they had met in alabama.Auburntiger 01:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe not. Who says CMT's list is any better or worse than another list by any random person? "Greatest" is not a value that can measured on a "Great-o-meter" The way, say, record sales, royalties and airtime can. Plus new songs over time can alter their list. Did the CMT rating have any meaningful effect on the song (or it's measurable stats)? If not, then such an inclusion is a needless promotion of CMT unrelated to SHA. Ace Frahm 10:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Used in soundtrack?

Isn't Sweet Home Alabama used as the main feature song in the Nicole Kidman film To Die For?

Not to mention a series of KFC commercials- many of which feature black families.

I don't think this article can mention every use of this very popular song.--Jack Upland 05:48, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

jacksonville, fl.

However, I do believe that its use in the HBO movie Boycott is significant enough to include, and have therefore added it back in (having added it in February 2006). If it was deleted for a reason, please state. --Davecampbell 20:41, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Someone again deleted this reference, without any explanation why. I restored it. Please don't delete other people's work without some kind of explanation. --Davecampbell 20:06, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Update - I saw on the change log a note from an anonymous user at an IP address, "(So what if a cover was used in an HBO movie? That doesn't seem like a notable use of the song)". The HBO movie Boycott is about the Montgomery Bus Boycott, a pivotal event in the Civil Rights Movement. As such, the use of "Sweet Home Alabama" is, imho, quite relevant - much more relevant than its use in a video game.

• It didn't appear that noteable to me either. That is one of the shortest entries in the section. It'd help to add some of that explanation. -Fnlayson 21:38, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Interesting tidbit

One fun fact/tidbit that this article misses is that when Neil Young is first referenced, a short snippet of his song "Southern Man" plays in the background. (Right channel, I believe.)

Was that the piano lick after "I heard ol' Neil put her down"?Zchris87v 07:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually it occurs right after "Well, I heard Mr. Young sing about her..." It's only a short snippet, just the words "Southern Man." - anon

Just listened to it, not actually from the Neil Young song. An earlier comment was deleted that stated it was Al Kooper saying that in a mocking manner, which I believe it was. For some reason, that line of this article was deleted. I just listened to it, it's definitely there, but not an actual clip from Southern Man. It's sung differently. Zchris87v 18:46, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Actual motivation behind lyrics

To be honest, people have formulated their own ideas on what the lyrics mean, but Ronnie never stated what it meant. No one knows if the Neil Young thing was 'in good fun', or if they meant to put Wallace down (they were actually awarded, I forgot with what, I think made marshalls in alabama or something by him), but the point is that these are all theories. It needs to be stated that "some theories on the lyrics are..." because that's what they are - just what we suppose the song is about. None of you are Ronnie, Allen, or Gary. So please, remember these assumptions are all YOUR INTERPRETATIONS!!! Thanks. Zchris87v 07:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

• Wikipedia is not the place to publish original interpretations of artistic works (See WP:NOR). So if there is to be discussion in the article about the meaning of the lyrics, reference should be made to previously-published work. We don't need a bunch of "some theories on the lyrics are..." we need things like " BusinessWeek commentator David Kiley criticized KFC's use of "Sweet Home Alabama" in an advertising campaign, saying that the song "has long been an anthem for defending the Confederacy." [2]. (I'm sure there are more authoritative analyses to be found... that's just the first thing Google came up with). --Dystopos 18:58, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Clayton and King

Remarkably, until I just edited, no one had pointed out that the background vocals on the recording are Merry Clayton and Clydie King. As it happens, both are African American, which probably deserves mention in the article, but I'll leave that to someone else. - Jmabel | Talk 22:38, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I see no one has taken me up on this. I'm surprised. - Jmabel | Talk 00:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

You apparently have a source you can cite; I don't. It's probably best for you to add it to the article, with a citation. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 00:16, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Drew Daniel

Would anyone have access to a copy of Drew Daniel's paper/essay "How to Sing Along with 'Sweet Home Alabama'", which I heard him present at the 2006 Pop Conference at Experience Music Project? I'm not sure if it's been published, but it was very insightful, including discussion of the distinction between the Van Zant's somewhat ambiguous and ambivalent intent and the much less complex anthemic use of the song or, as Christopher Monsen puts it, "invoked versus taken meaning". [3]

The abstract of Daniel's talk is online.

By the way, the "punchline" of Daniels' talk is that you should remain silent until the line "Does your conscience bother you" and then belt that out as loudly as you can. - Jmabel | Talk 22:48, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, obviously there are a number of uneasy consciences, given the intellectually dubious offerings on this page.--Jack Upland 05:09, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

CoJack

It's good to see that Ronnie's spirit is alive and kicking on this page. It would seem that part of the allure of his music is the mystery within the words. First are the facts: He was from FLORIDA not Alabama. He was very proud of this. I see that some of the content on this website has deleted some things, but has not made any change to the reference to Lynyrd Skynyrd writing the song about their home. All other references about race amd the north/south thing were fodder from which Ronnie used to get people to think. Yes some of what I say is unofficial theory, but if you do some research, it becomes more than theory. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.110.7.42 (talk • contribs) 13 October 2006.

In fact, none of the three writers of the song were originally from Alabama. I've added that to the article. Thanks for mentioning it. - Jmabel | Talk 04:16, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The End Of The Song Question

I can't believe you people. Are you for real? You talked about the song, the lyrics, the this, the that. You forgot the fundamentally most important thing about this song. Namely: WHAT THE HECK IS BEING MUMBLED AT THE END OF THE SONG? This is one of the hottest debated questions in all of rock history. For example, I always thought the words were, "I'M STONED AND IT'S HAPPENING!" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.118.28.15 (talk • contribs) 14 November 2006.

I can't imagine how you think this is "the fundamentally most important thing about this song", but if a significant number of other people think that it is important at all, you should be able to come up with something citable for this. - Jmabel | Talk 23:51, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

MOJO interview w/ Young

Could someone possibly track down a clean citation for what is described in the article as a 1992 interview w/ Neil Young by Nick Kent in MOJO? [4] more or less cites for the quotation (they leave out the word "shit", though), but says it was 1995 and doesn't mention Kent. I don't see anything else online that doesn't derive from us. - Jmabel | Talk 04:22, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Movie by the Same Name

I can't believe that this article doesn't mention the 2002 movie of the same name. Which also uses a cover of the song. I'm not sure on what the best way is to add the reference but it certainly feels incomplete without it. - fret 18/4/2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.12.172.254 (talk) 04:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC).

The movie uses two covers, one by Cornbread and a second by Jewel which appears on the official soundtrack. WShipway (talk) 09:55, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

This makes no sense

" ...surviving members stated the last line "Montgomery got the answer" was a reference to the Selma to Montgomery civil rights marches led by Martin Luther King. Those who are pro-Wallace have said that the line means Montgomery's got the answer and the answer is Governor Wallace. However, this is only a case of a misheard line, as Van Zant is saying "My Governor's got the answer." "

The line was misheard by *surviving band members*?? If the band themselves have stated that it's a reference to the Montgomery marches, then any claim to the contrary sure as hell needs a reference. 121.45.162.83 06:49, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

It looks like that instance was cleaned up, but there's still a contradictory claim above that: Van Zant can be heard ad-libbing "My, My gov'nor's got the answer." Somebody should figure out which line he's actually singing; I can't tell for certain by listening, and there's no citation to resolve the self-contradiction. Bradd 16:06, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Seems to be one way to resolve what is said at the end of the song would simply be to mix down the song to a vocal-only feed...if the song's in stereo shouldn't someone be able to do this?

If you check out live performances of this song on YOUTUBE you can clearly hear VanZant saying "My my Montgomery's got the answer." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.125.147.253 (talk • contribs)

Lies and evasion don't need to make sense.--Jack Upland 09:46, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a pop song, not a legal contract. A definitive interpretation is hardly assured. --Dystopos 19:33, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Weasel tag

I've added a weasel tag to the "Political references" section of the article because of its largely uncited "some say this but others say that" tone.

I swear I once read an interview with Ronnie van Zant in which he basically explained that the message of the song is that blaming ordinary Southerners for George Wallace is like blaming ordinary Northerners for Richard Nixon. That explains both the governor reference and the Watergate reference. I've been unable to locate van Zant's comments on the Internet, but I'm sure they exist somewhere.

It's obvious from other songs and from Ronnie van Zant's comments that not only wasn't Skynyrd racist, but they were actually fairly liberal. (They were a rock band, after all.) Unfortunately, it seems some of the fans of the band's current incarnation don't appreciate the irony in songs like "Sweet Home Alabama." -- Mwalcoff 06:25, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

All rock bands are liberal? Everyone who says they're not racist isn't? Alabama doesn't elect its Governor? Nixon was a Northerner? Besides, I don't think racism as such is the issue. The song sounds like it supports Wallace. That's not the same as being racist and it certainly doesn't require explicit racism. But I agree with your initial point: I've been arguing all along against the weasel words employed.--Jack Upland 18:49, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I felt guilty about liking the song until I read the comments from Ronnie van Zant. Sure, it's possible he was lying, but his explanation makes perfect sense when you read the lyrics of the second verse:

In Birmingham they love the governor -- boo, boo, boo (Van Zant was adamant the "boo, boo, boo" is part of the song.)
Now we all did what we could do (to fight Wallace or racism, that is)
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth

In 1972, Nixon won almost everywhere -- so if people are to blame for the actions of those elected in their jurisdiction, everyone should have felt guilty for Watergate. I don't know if this was so much North vs. South as it was South vs. America as a whole.

It's may be true that the song is often misinterpreted as support for Wallace, or isn't clear enough in its meaning, but we've got to word the section better than it's worded now. -- Mwalcoff 02:17, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

So you think the phrase "the governor's true" is a criticism of Wallace???--Jack Upland 07:27, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it would help to remember that when there is disagreement over something, that Wikipedia has to appeal to verifiable sources and maintain a neutral point of view. Our own interpretations of the lyrics don't belong here at all. --Dystopos 13:53, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, a lot of people seem to object to the lyrics being cited. Is that a verifiable source??? Or is that an 'interpretation'???--Jack Upland (talk) 10:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Recording details

Political discussions aside, there seems to be some inconsistencies about the actual recording of this song. Firstly, there is no citations in the first part of the article, about the productions. The article claims the amp used for the guitar backing track was a Marshall, even though Lynyrd Skynyrd was endorsed by Peavey most of their career. The amp used could quite possibly be a Marshall, but this would have to be confirmed from a reliable source.

The article claims the backing guitar was played by Ed, while the album inlay (and indeed the article too, further down!) list Ed as playing lead and solo, and Gary and Allan playing rythm guitar.

What I REALLY want to know is what guitar is used for the intro, I've always assumed it was a Fender Strat, but after playing the riff on a Firebird I'm not so sure anymore...

K

Check here - forums.edking.net This is Ed King's official message board. Look in the information archives and it will all detail the following:

• Guitar - 1967 Fender Stratocaster w/ sunburst finish. This guitar is now in the RRHOF in Cleveland, OH
• Amplifier - Unknown year Marshall Plexi. This did belong to Allen Collins because the Peavey endorsement did not occur until mid-to-late 1975. Ask Ed, or roadie Joe Barnes, or Craig Reed, etc...
• Ed did play the basic lead/solo track that is heard in the center channel of the song.

Trust me, I've been cataloging all of the guitars/amps/etc used by the band in the last 40+ years, so I'm 110% confident I know what I'm talking about.

Allansfirebird 06:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Political references

This needs some work. In the oral history book, Van Zant is quoted as saying he disagrees with Wallace, and being specific about the nature of his disagreements. I'll dig up the quote. I think the whole discussion here is odd; anyone familiar with the original band's recorded output would know where Van Zant stands on issues, considering, for example, their pro-gun control and environmental songs. The whole situation with "Sweet Home Alabama" is very much like the one with Springsteen and "Born in the USA". In fact, didn't even Wallace himself misunderstand the song?

Except that the misundestanding of 'Born in the USA' is based solely on the chorus. No one has ever been able to substantiate their anti-racist reading of 'Alabama' based on the lyrics alone. Despite all the argument, the fact remains that the song presents clear sentiments against Neil Young and for George Wallace. We are somehow asked to ignore these and rely instead on some later commentary which blurs the issues...? By contrast, Springsteen evokes the discontent of a Vietnam veteran very clearly. Perhaps you should think through the issues before criticising the article.--Jack Upland 09:16, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Then perhaps you should think through where the song fits into the band's recorded output and how understanding is often dependent on context. 130.238.66.35 (talk) 15:31, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

The only way someone could construe "Sweet Home Alabama" as racist is by taking a single line out of context -- "In Birmingham they love the governor." As mentioned above, when the line is put in context, including the clearly audible "boo boo boo" part, the "racist" interpretation cannot be sustained. -- Mwalcoff 03:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, people's views can change over time, or simply be inconsistent, so the context of the band's output is misleading. There are several lines in the song that give rise to the view that it is what I would call 'segregationist sympathetic' rather than explicitly 'racist'. These include the lines attacking Neil Young and the phrase 'the Governor's true'. No one's really dealt with this in an honest, sensible way.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

When it comes to the "governor's true" phrase, don't forget that an understanding of irony is also dependent on context. Exactly how would you go about developing the argument that the song is "segregationst sympathtic? I'm just curious. The fact is that the line goes "In Birmingham, they love the governor," not "we love the governor." Rather, the narrator of the song states that "now we all did what we could do" in response to the people loving the governor, suggesting a disapproval of the situation and implying an attempt to take action against it. 130.238.66.35 (talk) 13:52, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, the line "In Birmingham, they love the governor" is endorsed by the whole theme of the song. It's "Sweet Home Alabama", not "pleasant neighbourhood, regrettably tainted by occasional segregationist sympathies"... It is Neil Young who receives explicit criticism for his attack on the South, not George Wallace. Secondly, the line is echoed by the later line "And the governor's true". In conclusion, it is very hard to find criticism of the governor in the song. Sure, the group might have voiced other opinions at a later date, but really - so what? The line "Now we did all we could do" is not really clear. If they wanted to criticise Wallace's politics surely they could have been more explicit.--Jack Upland (talk) 08:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal of Cleanup Tags and Trivia Tags

So there is no confusion as to why the cleanup and trivia tags were removed, here is a list of changes I made to the page:

• Formatted citations in accordance with Wiki and MLA guidelines.
• Corrected information under the Muscle Shoals heading stating the band was inducted into the Alabama Hall of Fame. The Alabama Hall of Fame is defunct as of 1990. The band was instead inducted to the Alabama Music Hall of Fame.
• Changed the heading "Personnel" to "Members".
• Added links to Wiki pages about the members.
• Added an external link to the City of Muscle Shoals web site.
• Restructured Media and Pop Culture section to allow for removal of trivia tags. Caroofikus 05:26, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Commented You Tube link (1)

Concert footage ? - No indication uploader is linked with band artist/label or the concert organisers as such... Sfan00 IMG (talk) 00:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Just curious: Is the copyright status of something on Youtube really Wikipedia's problem? The removal of links to "copyright status unknown" clips seems to be a new thing; has it been discussed to consensus somewhere? (After all, we have many links to lyrics pages with equally shaky copyright claims). Jgm (talk) 00:20, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Well Why do you think I asked about it on a talk page? Ideally links to lyrics with shaky copyright claims should be reviewed/commented out/ removed as well.. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 01:53, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

You didn't answer my questions. According to who? Jgm (talk) 11:38, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia policies WP:EL and WP:COPYRIGHT say we should not "Knowingly and intentionally" include links that violate copyrights. So removing links with questionable status is playing it safe, but not unreasonable. -Fnlayson (talk) 14:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Politics

Seems to me that the material about the politics of the song - certainly of no small interest - could use expansion, but I'm not sure where to go for citable sources. There seem to be two issues here: the ambiguous politics of the song itself (moderately well covered) and the use of the song by people who seem less aware of its ambiguity (really not covered at all). Does anyone have some suggestions on possible citations for the latter? - Jmabel | Talk 00:17, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

My suggestions are:

• Version produced by "skinhead" band Skrewdriver - references in article present and past...
• Use in film of same name, especially association with line, "The South will rise again".

That line is not present in the song's lyrics. At least not the original, anyway. Or are you talking about a cover version? Stonemason89 (talk) 19:52, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Comment: how much of this "ambiguity" is really wishful thinking by sophists who like a catchy tune...--Jack Upland (talk) 09:45, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

PS The current version of the article ignores most of this discussion. How does it explain "the governor's true" line? Well, it just ignores it. What credibility does this have?--Jack Upland (talk) 11:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Looks like it's been fixed. I'm not sure how the governor's line ever got so miss understood. It clearly contrasts "they" and "we". So you know what side teh singer is on. JeffBurdges (talk) 04:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Well, now the politics is microscopic. At least we know now that the Southern rebels are cowards.--Jack Upland (talk) 10:21, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Template

Tell me if anyone agrees with me, but I really think the classic incarnation of the band should be in bold, with people like Johnny Van Zant lower. Johnny Van Zant sucks and should not be bolded over people like Ronnie and Steve Gaines. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.249.90.115 (talk) 02:04, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

other covers

Leningrad Cowboys & Red Army Choir - SWEET HOME ALABAMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lNFRLrP014&feature=PlayList&p=9E74B7C9C1F8D037&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10
2:17Civic Cat (talk) 19:50, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Song is satire?

To me, the song's lyrics almost satirical or sarcastic, similar to the Randy Newman songs Rednecks and Sail Away. Does anyone know if the band members actually intended for the lyrics to be taken seriously, or if they were singing "in character" (as Newman frequently did, and as Weird Al Yankovic often does today), perhaps as a parody of stereotypical Southerners? I dunno, maybe it's just me projecting Randy Newman's songwriting style onto the band. This song seems like something he could have written, though. Also, the band isn't even from Alabama, so it does seem like satire of some sort.Stonemason89 (talk) 20:00, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Yep, it's just you.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:01, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

Country Grammar Mix

Shouldn't there be some mention of the mix/mash-up of "Sweet Home Alabama" and Nelly's "Country Grammar"? I thought it was awesome and, more importantly, notable. Lawyer2b (talk) 19:08, 6 July 2010 (UTC)