Talk:Sweet Child

I've got a feeling: The time sig

Sorry, I seem to nit-pick more on Pentangle talk pages than to make decent contributions to the articles. But I can’t hear 6/8 time in I’ve got a feeling. It’s three fairly relaxed beats to the bar. Let’s call them crotchets: we can’t call them quavers or minims. Then they are divided into triplets. That makes 3/4 or 9/12, depending on which feature you want to stress. (I’d go for the latter.) —Ian Spackman 17:44, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

I think I was responsible for the mention of 6/8 (and am also happy to engage in lengthy discussions about nit-picking Pentangle issues at the least provocation). I just checked my copy of the album and the sleeve notes say 3/4 so I'll edit it to that when I've finished writing this. I'm trying to remember why I thought 6/4, but my record deck is on the blink so I can't play the album to have another listen. I thought you could count a very slow 2-time with a bit of swing to it: (1)I (2) got a (1)feeling (2) con- (1)cern- (2) -ing (1)you etc. with a slight accent on the (1). You can then divide each of those beats into three, giving you a total of 6 in the bar. So you could count it like (1)I- (2) (3) (4) (5)got (6)a (1)feel- (2)ing (3) (4) (5) (6)con- (1)cern- (2) (3) (4) (5) (6)ing (1)you.... If you count it that way it also has the benefit that you get 12 bars for a complete verse, which sounds right for a blues. So I was convinced it was 6 to a bar. However, I'll accept that the record sleeve is a more reliable source! Bluewave 15:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Just noticed a very nice video of Pentangle performing this ca. 1970 on You Tube. Includes a rare smile from McShee. Jansch introduces and acknowledges that they stole it from someone! Bluewave 13:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

On another related note, I can't hear any 7/4 or 11/4 in 'Market Song', just a steady 4/4 with an extra beat before the chorus. Anyone care to justify this bit of musical analysis? it seems highly unlikely.--Coolazice (talk) 03:38, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

The source is the album sleeve which says (of this song) "Danny and Terry underline the time which switches between 7/4, 11/4 and 4/4". Bluewave (talk) 10:43, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Still don't hear it. Can you point out where these changes occur, either in notation or just via lyric syllables? I think the album sleeve might have gotten it wrong, in which case the encyclopedia article should not follow it. Thanks. --Coolazice (talk) 11:24, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

First of all, the criteria for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiable sources (eg the album sleeve), and not the opinions of editors. That was the reason I left "I've got a feeling" as 3/4, even though it sounds like 6/8 to me. That said, I will have another close listen to Market Song. I can see how you could count 4 (with the odd 5) and keep pace with the song, but I don't think that's how they are counting it. If Terry Cox had been a folk-rock drummer, that's probably how it would have come out...but he wasn't. He goes into a very clear 4/4 in the second part of the chorus (the "Walking through the stalls, I am amazed by them all" or some such), but he certainly doesn't play that throughout. From memory, the song starts with a bass riff and I would say that was more like alternating bars of 3 and 5 beats, rather than a slower 4. I think that same rhythm also goes with the apples and oranges bit. I appreciate that this is not 7 or 11 either! OK I'll get my old vinyl out and give it another listen. If we can't find the 7s and 11s, perhaps a good edit woud be change the article to make it clear that the album sleeve mentions those time signatures, rather than stating categorically that the song is in that time. Bluewave (talk) 14:15, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Having listen through a couple of times, I'm still struggling to untangle the timing. I'd say there were some definite 7s, for example in the last line of the chorus:

         1 2 3 4 5 6 7    1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Come and buy  them, sweet apples, sweet oranges

I haven't identified an 11-time bar yet...but I'm not really sure what I'm listening for! There are quite a few bits that sound like alternating 3s and 5s to me. For instance:

1 2  3 1 2 3   4       5   1 2 3 123 4  5   
 As I  wander through the  market,    each.....

Anyone else want to contribute to this discussion?? Bluewave (talk) 15:10, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

OK, if we're counting a fast pulse, there could be a 5 then 3 beat division for the verses, with a bar of 5 and then an extra two beats under the phrase 'Sweet' that begins the chorus - which makes 7. Still can't hear 11 either. It might lie in the guitar part, which is quite peculiar in its emphases. Sorry for the late reply.--Coolazice (talk) 12:59, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sweetchild.png

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BetacommandBot 05:06, 3 July 2007 (UTC)