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Talk:Superintendent of the United States Military Academy/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Supt. Bennett

According to PointerView, "Gen. Donald Vivian Bennett, 47th Superintendent of West Point, died Nov. 28 in Asheville, N.C. He was 90." For a few days the link will be at current-page address here; on or around the 16th of December, when next issue becomes the current one, it will be archived here (link inactive as of writing, but it will be activated at that time). Bill 22:10, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Supt. rank/consistency

Are we going to list the Sups' final rank, or rank when they were Sup? MacArthur (1 star as Sup, 5 star at retirement) and Goodpaster (3 star as Sup, 4 star at retirement) are listed by the rank they held while Sup, while Westmoreland and Taylor are listed as "Gen.", the 4 star rank at retirement, which is higher than the rank they held while serving as Sup. Others have no rank listed at all, I assume because we don't know. Is there agreement as to how Sups are going to be listed? --rogerd 01:37, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

For consistency's sake, I threw out everything except ranks held while actually Superintendent. Hopefully someone else can fill in the many remaining blanks. Morinao 01:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

rename/move

This article was recently moved from Superintendents of the United States Military Academy. I disagree with this move. The first three Supes were not alumni, and it is possible (but unlikely) that a future Supe may be appointed who is not an alumnus. It is not about what school they attended, but the leadership position they held later in their career. --rogerd (talk) 13:21, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Alumni does not necessarily equate to graduate or student. There are several alumni list that include faculty, school presidents etc, such as List_of_United_States_Naval_Academy_alumni#Faculty--it and its sublists are Featured Lists. This also gets this lists' naming convention in line with the main USMA alum list and sublist so we can make it a featured topic. Making this a sublist also allows for getting more WP alum into a FL as there are way too many to put on just one main list. The USNA main alum list has 4 sublists. — Rlevse • Talk • 13:29, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I see that the equivalent list for the USNA is List of Superintendents of the United States Naval Academy. Why can't this list be called List of Superintendents of the United States Military Academy? I think the current name (List of United States Military Academy alumni (Superintendents)) is confusing and awkward sounding. --rogerd (talk) 21:05, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
also...see wiktionary:alumnus --rogerd (talk) 21:10, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Notice that wasn't part of the FLs I did on USNA alum, I hadn't even found it and I haven't touched it. So be it. Rename this to whatever and I won't work on it or make part of the alum Featured Topic. — Rlevse • Talk • 22:01, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I too was a little perplexed at the name change, but after looking at the reasoning and the work that Rlevse did on the USNA alumni page, it makes more sense. Based upon the definition of "alumni", I don't think that Jonathan Williams or William A. Baron qualify as "alumni", but given the unbroken line of alumni Supes after Joseph G. Swift until present day, I have no problem with the name change, especially given Rlvese's intent to bring it in line with the format for the other sublists that he is building off of the main USMA alumni page. I'd ask you (Rlevse) to no omit the list of Supe's from your efforts, while at the same time, I understand rogerd's concern. I look forward to seeing the list of USMA grad's improve and helping out where I can!  Ahodges7   talk 01:06, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
OK then, I'll start working on this one, with name as it is. — Rlevse • Talk • 01:28, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Williams, Barron, Wadsworth chronology

From User:Ahodges7 talk page: Here's the timeline according to Ambrose (1966) and Crackle (2002):

  • June 1803: Williams resigns over a dispute between himself and the artillery cdr at WP over who has command of the post
  • June 1803-April 1805: Superintendency falls to the next Engineer in seniority, MAJ Decius Wadsworth, who is often away supervising engineering projects on the eastern seaboard. Because of his absence, the next senior officer, CPT Barron, mathematics instructor, is in charge. A bachelor, he apparently allows mutliple prostitues to live with him under the cover of being "house servants".
  • Feb 1805: Wadsworth reposted to New Orleans, academy is Supe-less
  • April 1805: Williams returns as Supe, but is often away of the next few years, just as Wadsworth was, so Baron continues to run the place.
  • Jan 1807: Baron is finally brought up on charges of deriliction of duty and neglect of the academy and chooses to resign. Williams begins to spend more time at the post to shape it up.

So I guess we need to ammend the Supe list to have Decius Wadsworth as Supe from 1803-1805 and remove barron. The Crackle reference (Bicentenial History of West Point) is found on p 60-66 and Ambrose (Duty, Honor, Country) is p28-29.  Ahodges7   talk 12:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

this is why Barron is sometimes listed as the second superintendent. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

rank while serving as Superintendent

Until last month, this article listed the rank of supes when they held the position, not their terminal (is that the correct term?) rank. For instance, Douglas MacArthur was listed as BG and Hugh Scott was listed as Col, even thought they went on to hold higher rank. I think it is more interesting to show the rank of the supes while they were supe. Perhaps a compromise could be to list both, like for Hugh Scott we could say "Colonel (later Major General)". --rogerd (talk) 00:29, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Why didn't you bring this up in the beginning? We're almost done and the template would have to be recoded. — Rlevse • Talk • 00:38, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
I am sorry, I hadn't really noticed that this information was removed. Rank seems to not be a separate column, but just part of the free-form text under "Notability". --rogerd (talk) 18:29, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Hmmm. See this version before we started. See talk page, or maybe Ahodges7's talk page, where we realize Barron wasn't the supe and also Wadsworth only acting. Also we think we're still mising a supe. Ahodges7 is going to research whom USMA actually considers real supes so we can get it right. If the template coder will change the template to allow a "rank as supe" column, are you willing to fill them it? We could have that and also leave the final/retirement rank in the notability column. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:09, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I was wrong. The official party line is that Jonathan Williams WAS the 1st and 2nd Supes, see this handy resource. This resource has even more fidelity on exact dates and ranks while as the Supe, rather than just years in office.  Ahodges7   talk 21:35, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

USMA Supes

Adding months and days to the years causes sorting problems and is getting hit at flc review. Pls leave years only. — Rlevse • Talk • 23:08, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

If one wants to use months and days in a sortable table, please use {{dts}}. Dabomb87 (talk) 01:23, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

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