Talk:Super Shy

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Super Shy/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Lililolol (talk · contribs) 20:59, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: Wuju Daisuki (talk · contribs) 19:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Hi! I'll try to get this review done soon. It's my first review, but I'll try to do it well. Might get a more experienced reviewer to look after it when I'm done. Good day, Wuju Daisuki (talk) 19:39, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Lead

• It is an incorporation of liquid drum and bass, bubblegum, and Jersey club using a club-inflected bass drum pattern. Nothing about club-inflection on the sources, just staccato bass drum
• Written by Gigi, Kim Dong-hyun, Erika de Casier, Kristine Bogan, Frankie Scoca, and NewJeans member Danielle, it is about the nervousness of confessing to a first love. I think the "written by" lumping of every composing-lyrics-producer credit fuzzes up things; I see someone was adding that Danielle composed the song, though that's not the case, and that ambiguous sentence might be why
• The single was NewJeans' third number-one hit on the South Korean Circle Digital Chart, where it spent eight weeks at number one. The eight weeks is not verified in the article
• The choreography, by Black.Q and Eunju Kim, showcases the members performing waacking and accessible moves, with NewJeans dressed in youthful outfits and featuring Wes Anderson-inspired visuals. "Accessible" to me insinuates, like, easy to access for the disabled in such, while in the sources it's said the dance was made so that "anyone can easily follow along"—maybe change accessible to "easily followable". Also only one critic pointed out Wes Anderson as like a guess, it's not like Min Heejin or Shin Heewon pointed out Wes
• To promote the single, they appeared on various South Korean music programs, resulting in six first-place music program awards, including a triple crown on Inkigayo. The "they" is referring to NewJeans, but in the previous sentence NewJeans are at the very back (not where a subject would usually be); you could replace "they" with NewJeans or just say "the group" to reduce some of that vagueness
• Oh and also in the infobox, the B-side being NewJeans doesn't make sense as Super Shy wasn't released as an A-side B-side single, but as part of an album

Background and composition

• South Korean media outlets reported that the album would be released in July 2023, preceded by one of its B-side tracks set to be released on July 7. Not exactly what the source says, it doesn't mention a B-side: I'd modify it to "preceded by a prerelease track set to be released on July 7." I'm also not sure if the term B-side, in its meaning within the K-pop industry (= an album track that is not the lead single, or "title track"), will be understood by general audiences
• In June 2023, ADOR announced that NewJeans would release their second extended play, Get Up, on July 21, 2023, and revealed the release date for the lead single, "Super Shy," and one of the B-side tracks, "New Jeans." I don't think the citation verifies the content. Also the B-side thing again
• "Super Shy" was composed by Erika de Casier, Kristine Bogan, and Frankie Scoca, who also handled the production. For some reason the Melon link () links to the information, for the whole Get Up album, not the individual song information. The other one is fine, verifying the Scoca production
• NewJeans sing "I'm super shy, super shy / But wait a minute while I / Make you mine, make you mine / I'm trembling even now / You're on my mind / All the time / I wanna tell you but I'm / Super shy, super shy", wishing to muster the courage to confess to their first love, a recurring theme in their discography. Quote from the source: "특유의 설레고 순수한 가사도 눈에 띈다. 서툴고 풋풋한 첫사랑을 소환시키는 뉴진스다운 노래 가사다. [The characteristic heart-fluttering, pure lyrics stand out. They're lyrics characteristic of NewJeans that summon up the clumsy, innocently inexperienced feelings of first love.]" Nothing about recurring themes. Also isn't the quote a bit long

Reception (& commercial performance)

• Not too much about the main reception section (I fixed the only issue a few days ago) but maybe you could lay off on the quotations a bit? Though there's a nice prose gap between them
• "Super Shy" debuted at number 27 on South Korea's Circle Digital Chart in the issue dated July 2–8, 2023. [...] "Super Shy" debuted at number one on both Singapore's Top Streaming Chart and the Malaysia International chart. The song debuted at number one on the Billboard Hits of the World charts for Hong Kong and Taiwan, earning NewJeans their first and third number-one in the country, respectively. Feels a little stiff and repetitive - maybe change the structure to "The song debuted at number one on Singapore's Top Streaming Chart, the Malaysia International chart, and the Billboard Hits of the World charts for Hong Kong and Taiwan, earning NewJeans their first and third number-one in Hong Kong and Taiwan respectively." Also not sure of the first and third claims (though those are probably behind the Billboard Plus paywall in the citation)
• It rose to number one the following week, earning NewJeans their third number-one song in the country after "Attention" (2022) and "Ditto" (2022). Source on third number one statistic? The source right now is just a chart

Music video

• It was directed by Shin Hee-won, who had previously directed music videos for NewJeans' songs "Attention" and "Hurt". Could we get a non-primary source for the Attention and Hurt directing credits
• [...]the fast high-energy choreography was based on waacking and purposefully includes accessible moves. See the point in the lead

Accolades

• "Super Shy" won Artist of the Year – Global Streaming at the 13th Circle Chart Music Awards. Super Shy didn't win it, NewJeans did—and the source linked doesn't even mention Super Shy the song

References

Final comments and verdict

No edit war currently in place; I edited the article last on the sixth. The fair use rationale on the only non-free file seems to be alright except in the minimal use parameter, where it says "The file will be used only once for commentary in the 'Flower' article" but it's in the Super Shy article (probably it was a copy-and-paste from Jisoo's "Flower", your last good article), but I can't seem to change that as of now! Now let's go over what we need to change:

• Prose: Check the issues I listed in my review.
• MOS: Fix the statement in the lead that isn't verified in the body
• RS: Half and half on some of the Korean sources (ex. Xsportsnews) but that could be my own bias
• OR: There are some sources that don't verify the text, as stated in my review (I know that's kind of stretching OR but making sure citations verify the text is a GA guideline!)
• CV: Neutral until we get to the "Super Shy" quote. Otherwise it seems all good

We're  On hold until all these issues are fixed. Good day, Wuju Daisuki (talk) 16:11, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Oh and also in the infobox, the B-side being NewJeans doesn't make sense as Super Shy wasn't released as an A-side B-side single, but as part of an album. Well, 'Super Shy' was released as a standalone single alongside 'New Jeans,' according to Apple Music,[1] and many publications pointed out that the two songs were released together before the album. Later, it was included in the album 'Get Up.' Therefore, it can be considered an A-side and B-side type of track. Lililolol (talk) 19:04, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I've fixed the lead, background, composition, and music video sections. However, I couldn't find a non-primary source for the directing credits of 'Attention' and 'Hurt.' Lililolol (talk) 19:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

I believe I have fixed everything, so please check it out. Lililolol (talk) 19:36, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Also not sure of the first and third claims (though those are probably behind the Billboard Plus paywall in the citation) You can check the archived version to bypass the paywall. Lililolol (talk) 19:42, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki All done Lililolol (talk) 20:19, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

@Lililolol We're not all done yet; points like the B-side in the infobox, a citation for the eight weeks on Circle, or the recurring theme mention still need to be fixed Wuju Daisuki (talk) 21:40, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki Regarding the B-side mentioned in the infobox, as I mentioned above, it was released as a standalone track with 'New Jeans' on Apple Music. The claim about it spending eight weeks on Circle is unverified, but clicking the link should show that it spent eight weeks there. Lastly, the "recurring theme"— are you talking about Wes Anderson’s visual style? If so, I removed that part from the lead. Lililolol (talk) 18:33, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

@Lililolol The released as a standalone single w/ New Jeans needs to be clarified in the body. The eight weeks claim needs to be verified by an actual citation—a link to a chart itself won't cut it, especially when it says nowhere in the text that it charted for eight weeks. The recurring theme is talking about the sentence "It is about wishing to muster the courage to confess to their first love, a recurring theme in their discography" in the background and composition section. Also new thing with the Best Music - Fall nomination at the The Fact Music Awards: the criteria for that category in particular looks to me like it's just fan voted, even if The Fact may be a notable awards show. Wuju Daisuki (talk) 17:14, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki You're right, the Best Music Award depends on fan voting. Do you suggest removing it? Also, please check if there are any other issues that need fixing. Lililolol (talk) 19:32, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Lililolol I'd like you to remove it and then get on the rest of the issues I've already mentioned. Good day, Wuju Daisuki (talk) 19:39, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki I think i did fix everything, please go check it out, and have a good day Lililolol (talk) 20:12, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki All done. Lililolol (talk) 01:09, 25 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Lililolol, sorry that I'm hauling all this on you. Anyways here is hopefully my last bunch of nitpicks:

• It is an incorporation of liquid drum and bass, bubblegum, and Jersey club, featuring a distinctive staccato kick drum pattern. -> "It is a mix of liquid drum and bass, bubblegum, and Jersey club, featuring a staccato kick drum pattern." (Incorporation makes no sense in this context, "distinctive" is editorializing)
• In June 2023, ADOR announced that NewJeans would release their second extended play, Get Up, on July 21, 2023, features six songs. -> "In June 2023, ADOR announced that NewJeans would release their second extended play, Get Up, on July 21, 2023, which would feature six songs."
• The song tells the story of a very shy person who has a crush on someone who doesn't even know she exists. Despite her nervousness, she eventually gathers the courage to express her feelings and take a step forward. Top closely paraphrased from GMA source? Possible fix: "The song's lyrics depict a shy person expressing their feelings to a crush." (Feel like gender neutral is better IDK)
• It also became NewJeans best-performing song in the United Kingdom, debuting at number 59 on the UK Singles Chart in the issue dated July 14–20, 2023. Add apostrophe on NewJeans (like this: NewJeans' best performing song, also that hyphen between best and performing isn't needed)

Update: I am looking for a second opinion as this is my first GA review and having to do all this myself is TBH stressing me out. I took a break for a few days and decided I should step back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wuju Daisuki (talk • contribs) 21:48, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

Hey @Lililolol and @Wuju Daisuki! I hope everything is going well and would like to congratulate Lililolol on getting the article this far and also congratulating Wuju for taking on the task of doing their first GA Review. With that being said, I have served as a second opinion on a GAR for another article in the past and would certainly love to pitch in. Before I give my two cents, are you primarily undecided on the criteria you marked purple or would you like a holistic evaluation or? -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 20:52, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

I guess it's both and a lot of other things. Mainly I'm nervous because it's my first GA. Also it's taking a lot longer than I think it needs to, mostly because having the responsibility on me has stressed me out. I'm on vacation with my family right now and I can't afford to spend all day micromanaging Wikipedia stuff. Wuju Daisuki (talk) 21:43, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki Understandable on the stress too yea, for sure. I'll take a look at the GAR in the upcoming week and get back to you. I think you seem to have done a pretty good job so far, seems to have good rigor. Either way, I'll get back to you and have fun on the vacation in the meantime, don't worry ab the GAR and enjoy spending time with family! PS: Ping me if I am not punctual with feedback delivery btw ofc. -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 00:29, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki Hey! It's been a while and I hope your vacation has been going well so far! Apologies for the long wait and failure to meet the deadline, but I unfortunately haven't had the time to begin the review. I'll communicate my preliminary thoughts right now and give a more in-depth review later on. I have to say that so far, I actually think you did a pretty good job so far. Your prose suggestions are definitely very good and incisive, so I don't see any issues there. I also think you did a good job scrutinizing the source, and the GA Nominator responded accordingly. However, I would recommend doing a formal Earwig assessment: [2] and also formalizing a spot check, which I think you did a fairly good job of, but I would perhaps like to see a full section dedicated to a spotcheck.

@Lililolol And likewise, apologies for holding up the GAR for quite a bit and I hope you've been having a good summer so far. I have a few minor prose nitpicks.

• I am not fond of the staccato kick drum pattern, as it seems to me a MOS:SEAOFBLUE issue. I'd personally recommend delinking pattern since I feel it's a fairly familiar pattern and doesn't warrant a wikilink as much as the other terms.
• , It is about Decapitalize "It" here since it's all in the same sentence.
• lauded "Super Shy" for what they deemed a refreshing and catchy production I feel the "what they deemed a" is a bit redundant and could be rephrased to something more active, like "Music critics praised "Super Shy", calling it a refreshing and catchy production. Another few notes I have here, I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the word "catchy" or "refreshing" and I'd like a bit more formal wording if possible.
• I'd recommend definitely adding more reviews to the Reception sections for both the song in general and the MV. I think the prosing is perfect and you should keep it up, as you're doing a good job in paraphrasing the review contents and not overquoting too much. I would like some more reviews so that I can get a better idea of what critics like and dislike, and I also think there should be some balance between both positive and negative reviews. Do note to keep MOS:FILMCRITICS and WP:RECEPTION in mind.
  • Wikilink Billboard and NME in the Reception section
• Following the release of their first single album, OMG, in January 2023, ADOR CEO and creative director Min Hee-jin revealed in an interview with Cine21 that NewJeans was preparing a new album The way that prepositional phrase makes it somewhat unclear if both events took place in January 2023 or if it was just the Min Hee-jin conducting the Cine21 interview. I'd recommend a slight rephrasing to clarify this. Perhaps something like In January 2023, Min Hee-jin revealed ... following the release of their first single album OMG. or something like that.
• I'd recommend adding a sentence in the Lead Section talking about the reception of the MV. You could definitely talk about how critics praised the visual aesthetic of the MV.
• Make sure to note when URLs have limited access. For example, the Kristine Rolling Stone source should definitely be marked with a subscribed. Add the |url-access= parameter to such refs. So, for the RS one, make sure to add url-access=subscription and add url-access=limited to the Vulture refs, etc etc.
• This may just be more of a me thing, but is by no means mandatory. I'd recommend making sure all the sources are archived, as I noticed that a majority of the sources are, but some aren't. If you'd like to ignore this or want me to do it or something, let me know.

-Dcdiehardfan (talk) 17:35, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

@Dcdiehardfan Thanks for getting to it, my vacation was good and I hope you've been having a good summer as well. I did do an Earwig search a bit ago and it didn't show much problem, only detecting stuff from direct quotes. (The problem w/ Earwig is that it's overloaded almost all the time, and when I was first reviewing this I had a wonderful time *sarcasm* getting anything to come up. Just my luck that this time the search came up with no problem. Ha ha ha.) Wuju Daisuki (talk) 17:17, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

@Dcdiehardfan All done. However, I'd recommend definitely adding more reviews to the Reception sections for both the song in general and the MV.... I would like some more reviews so that I can get a better idea of what critics like and dislike, and I also think there should be some balance between both positive and negative reviews. There aren't many more reviews available apart from the 'Best Music' kind of lists, which are already linked. And since there are no negative reviews, what do you recommend? Lililolol (talk) 22:35, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki Glad to hear it and it's been going well, thanks for asking! Thankful for the Earwig search, and yea, I too hate how it can be laggy. And yea, the results look all good there, nothing surprising considering the article is pretty good with paraphrasing and light on the quotes. I feel the WP:CV criteria has been met, and will recommend you to mark it completed at your discretion.

@Lililolol Excellent work on implementing the recommendations. I will go ahead and do a quick skim later today to clear up some other minor issues (feel free to contest if there are any issues; I will notify you once I have finished the edits). There aren't many more reviews available apart from the 'Best Music' kind of lists, which are already linked. And since there are no negative reviews, what do you recommend? I see, in that case, I am comfortable with leaving it as is as I trust your judgement and also myself couldn't find any other reputable reviews.

I will go ahead and conduct a spotcheck of my own and examine the sources later to pass my verdict on the WP:RS criteria, but so far, everything seems to be going well. One quick thing, do be sure to link Korea JoongAng Daily as the source/website for the Yong-jun Cho source. I'd also recommend revisiting the Times of India source, as it has no consensus on the WP:RS/P page, but again, I'll heed your judgement on this matter, although I'm sure finding a superior source shouldn't be too difficult. Again, more is to come later and feel free to ask me any questions. -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 17:23, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

Ok folks, I have went ahead and did a few edits on the prose. I think the overall prose and language is pretty good thus far, I would recommend @Wuju Daisuki to maybe pass a few more checks regarding MOS:LINK to ensure that all MOS items are adhered to and that I didn't miss anything. Once the Times of India source issue is cleared up and I conduct a spot-check (which I plan on doing by the end of this week), I'm comfortable with passing this as a GA! -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 03:14, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

@Lililolol @Wuju Daisuki Again, apologies for the late response and hopefully everything's going well for you folks. Alright, the spot-check is looking good so far. Of course, if I get anything wrong, definitely feel free to hold me accountable to that. I checked the following:

• 10 - Zoe Guy Vulture source corroborates the credits and genre desc Y
• 48 - Erick Frankenberg Billboard source corroborates them reaching 1s in Hong Kong and Malaysia, but does not corroborate earning NewJeans their first and third number-one in Hong Kong and Taiwan respectively as the article states “Super Shy” debuts atop those rankings and marks the group’s first chart-topper in Hong Kong and Malaysia.. Furthermore, do mark the source as being a subscription article with the |url-access parameter
• 21 - No-eul Kim Naver source corroborates the July 16 Inkigayo performance Y
• Sources 55-58: I checked WP:NOYT for the MV sources and this of course falls under the bucket of them being primary and secondary sources, so I will ok it, although I would recommend seeing if there are any other sources available that can corroborate Shin Hee-won and Min Hee-jin as the director and producer respectively, but if none can be found, feel free to disregard. Y
• 101 - RIAJ source is Y, self explanatory in this regard.

Source check looks good for me. I also cross-referenced this with random sources from WP:KO/RS#UR and found no matches, which is a good thing. I'll also bring up another few nitpicks regarding prose while I'm at it.

Azrin Tan highlights the vibrant beauty moments in the video - I'm not a fan of the diction here, I'd recommend replacing "the vibrant beauty moments" with something like "imagery", and also revise the sentence "K-pop group's signature playful and fresh aesthetic, blending Y2K nostalgia with modern trends" by replacing "K-pop group's" with simply NewJeans (strive for brevity and formality) and maybe replace the comma with a colon so there isn't too much commas.

• Mostly ditto for Key beauty highlights. I just think the diction here is a bit awkward. Perhaps something like "Key elements include" and then include the list. My recommendation would be something more akin to this Key elements include Danielle's cottagecore look, Hanni's striking blonde transformation, Hyein's trendy skunk stripes, Haerin's innocent floral accents, and Minji's tone-on-tone style; Tan opined each member's unique style contributed to the video's captivating visual appeal, alongside their dynamic choreography and euphoric energy.
  • Apologies for being pedantic, but I'm gonna be a bit more nitpicky on the list specifically. When it comes to the adjectives — "striking", "trendy", and "innocent" — this definitely does seem to incline towards WP:FLUFF territory. I definitely recommend either removing the words entirely or attributing it the source by quoting them.
  • This is also again, gonna be nitpicky, but the article states that Haerin has a single daffodil accent, so saying she has "accents" would be inaccurate. Make sure to address this.
• Noh Gyeong-eon highlighted that New Jeans - Make sure to use "NewJeans". I believe that's the formal name of the group, and of course, striving for consistency is important.
• Furthermore, be sure to let me know if the above changes have been implemented: Changing the Times of India source (if possible)

PS: I took care of the Korea JoongAng Daily thing. Dcdiehardfan (talk) 04:22, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Dcdiehardfan I just dropped in to remove a few instances of overlinking (along with other smaller stuff). I must say that the reception section for the music video is not very well-written. My advice to @Lililolol is to distance the writing from the praise a little bit, because at this state it sounds like an advertisement, and that's not what a good article should sound like! But I think Dcdiehardfan already has that covered, I guess. Wuju Daisuki (talk) 17:17, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki Sounds good. I think the overall writing style is fine, but I definitely concur that it does definitely veer into WP:PUFFERY territory and that extra care should be maintained to ensure WP:NPOV and also proper weighting. I'm glad we could find agreement on the matter and if you have any other recommendations you'd like to make, of course do feel free to add them. -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 03:13, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello, @Wuju Daisuki. I believe I've addressed all the issues, but if I've missed anything, please let me know, and I'll make the necessary adjustments. Lililolol (talk) 18:07, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

@Lililolol I just stopped by to remove the assertion of Super Shy being their 3rd number one in Taiwan since the source's text doesn't match that. Other than that:

• The song debuted at number two on both the Billboard Global 200 and the Billboard Global Excl. US in the chart issue dated July 22, 2023, with 63 million streams and 6,000 downloads sold worldwide, becoming NewJeans' best performing song on both charts and attaining their largest amount of one-week streams for a song, surpassing "Ditto"'s peak of 46.5 million one-week streams. This is a run-on sentence. I also don't think the sources back up the "both charts" claim, if both charts is referring to Global 200 and Global Excl. US (can't find anything about Excl. US). The Times of India source on this can also easily be removed. Try something like The song debuted at number two on both the Billboard Global 200 and the Billboard Global Excl. US in the chart issue dated July 22, 2023, with 63 million streams and 6,000 downloads sold worldwide. It attained NewJeans' largest amount of one-week streams for a song, surpassing "Ditto"'s peak of 46.5 million one-week streams, and became NewJeans' best performing song on Billboard Global 200. The other Times of India citation can also be culled if you see fit (my concern is that there's no author listed, so it's hard to see if there's any editorial input).
• In the Reception sub-section of Music video, the editorializing sentence can be changed to "Tan noted Danielle's cottagecore look, Hanni's blonde transformation, Hyein's "trendy" skunk stripes, Haerin's innocent floral accent, and Minji's tone-on-tone style; the writer opined that each member's style contributed to the video's visual appeal, along with their dynamic choreography and energy." (I don't like the word opined but I feel it's neutral enough"
• A source for "NewJeans usually performs "Super Shy" accompanied by 20 backup dancers."?

Other than that, I feel that this is all good to go. Good day, Wuju Daisuki (talk) 00:42, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

@Wuju Daisuki Hi, and sorry for the delayed response. I believe I've fixed everything, so please review it all. Lililolol (talk) 20:54, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

• Hi, I dropped into the page again to fix some prose that Lililolol didn't - I know I might be doing too much but I want this over ASAP. Anyways, with that I feel this is satisfactory to pass as a good article, and I'm pretty sure the other nominator would agree with me. Right? I'm fine w/ keeping the Times of India reception source. Also I'm never doing another GA review again, this is so stressful. Good day, Wuju Daisuki (talk) 01:20, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

  @Wuju Daisuki I'll take a look at it later tonight and give my thoughts. Glad to see progress has been made. Also I'm never doing another GA review again, this is so stressful. I can only imagine, even being part of GA Reviews is stressfull haha. -Dcdiehardfan (talk) 16:40, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

  @Wuju Daisuki @Lililolol Ok, I'm looking over the changes. I think everything looks good, and I'll leave the TOI source up the discretion of the GA proposer and reviewer, it's a trivial issue anyway and is being used for Reception, so it's alright. In that case, I'm pretty satisfied with the article and think it's good to go. Good job everyone! Dcdiehardfan (talk) 01:37, 1 August 2024 (UTC)