Talk:Sunday Bloody Sunday/Archive 1

Archive 1

What's It About?

I added a "Confusing" template thingamajig to this article because there's no clue as to what the song is about. It should at least mention the 1972 Derry Bloody Sunday incident so that it's in some sort of context.

It's in there now. I'm taking out the template, but feel free to put it back if it still feels confusing. --Kristbg 01:16, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

I put in the mid-song rant, so people get the feeling of the song and what the real message is. I left in the word "Fuck" as it has appeared in the U2 article without opposition. It is also meant in an angry context, definately not trying to be offensive. Duey Finster 22:34, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

The Best of 1980-1990

This song is the fifth track on U2's The Best of 1980-1990. Shouldn't it be mentioned here? El sand bag57 22:51, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm working on adding an album listing infobox for the Best Of albums. That should do it. --Kristbg 00:08, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Song sample

I was thinking a music sample of the song might help illustrate some of the descriptive text in the "Inspiration and recording" section. 30 seconds seems to be the ideal time; any ideas which 30-second sampling to use? I was thinking the opening 30 seconds. They definitely illustrate the raw guitar and bleak lyrics, as well as the martial drumbeat, but they don't showcase the hopeful change (musically) in the "How long?" section. Thoughts? --Mcmillin24 05:15, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Exactly what I thought. Go for it! --Kristbg 14:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

GA status

This article could do with a lot more references. Lincher 00:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

External link may be bad

According to siteadvisor, if you give your E-mail address to the first external link, it will post it to the web, and you'll get something like 20 spam E-mails a week. Should the link be removed?

Glorification?

There is a line under reactions "Even without some of the lyrics, a few listeners still immediately passed off the song as a "rebel" song—even one that glorified the events of the two Bloody Sundays to which the lyrics referred."

This is ludicrous as there was never any mention that the acts were being glorified by U2, it was the complete opposite!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.206.171.244 (talk • contribs)

I think this should be discussed before being completely removed. Here are a couple of quotes that back up the claim that some listeners passed off the song as "one that glorified the events of the two Bloody Sundays to which the lyrics referred."

From Walk On: The Spiritual Journey of U2: "There were, of course, those who misunderstood "Sunday Bloody Sunday." The band got into trouble on both sides of the politial divide. The Protestants were displeased with the seeming glorification of Bloody Sunday, which the Nationalists had been using as propaganda against the British troops."

And a quote from Fachtna O'Ceallaigh from U2 at the End of the World, in many ways a more authoritative source because the author spent time with the band: "The idea of some major rock star going around the world with a white flag in his hand and singing 'Sunday Bloody Sunday' and then saying, This is not a rebel song has some nerve, as far as I'm concerned, to exploit the pain and suffering of people in a part of…whether it's his own country or anybody else's."

The point I attempted to bring when writing the original line about glorification is that some residents of Ireland felt the Bloody Sundays were being glorified just by there being a song written about them. I think completely removing a statement that helps explain a crucially different fan reaction to the song is a mistake. --McMillin24 _contribs^talk 20:34, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

: Glorification, to me, implies that the song was interpreted as glorifying what mass murder in Derry. No one could be dense enough to hear the song and think that, quite the opposite actually; one might hear "Sunday, Bloody Sunday" and come to the conclusion that the British Army has to go, and that only violence will get them out. Other rebel songs make that same point, when commemorating that event or similar tragedies in the nationalist community. So Bono, as I understand it, wanted to make it clear that he wasn't supporting the IRA, even though he was condemning the random killings of protestors by the British Army. In my opinion, that's pretty stupid, and should almost go without saying-- although if you really bristle that much about a Derry or Belfast republican singing your song about their pain, well, that's your choice I guess.

Anybody going to add a mention of the George W Bush "cover"? 60.241.69.75 02:18, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Alvin and the Chipmunks version

I added a little sidenote about the Alvin and the Chipmunks version to this article. I don't know where I'd find the actual song, though. Anybody help?§§§§Brieanna

Rolling Stone Magazine

I really like this quote from RS's review of Under a Blood Red Sky. Should we incoporate it into the article somehow?:

But the high point is "Sunday Bloody Sunday." It may not be a rebel song, as Bono tells a presumably baffled German audience, but it is practically everything else: an anguished, thoughtful synthesis of religious and political beliefs, backed by the bone-crushing arena-rock riff of the decade. This is "Stairway to Heaven" for smart people -- even if it is played a tad too fast -- and it kicks Under a Blood Red Sky over the rainbow.

--Merbabu 14:46, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It's a very good quote, but I'm not sure where it would fit. I've been toying with a quote from the RS interview with Bono, and which part of it is most appropriate to use:

Bono on War:

Great collection of songs. Strong in content and ideas but poor in lyrical execution. We were trying to be the Wlio meets the Clash. I spent minutes on these things rather than hours. So "Sunday Bloody Sunday," which was supposed to contrast Easter Sunday with the death of thirteen protesters in Derry on Bloody Sunday, didn't quite come off. And yet melodically and the suggestion of the lyrics stood up to the test of time. I've changed the lyrics when I sing it now just to make it more believable for myself. I don't think anyone else notices. But that's a great song—mostly Edge's song.

In particular, the last sentence might belong in the background section. McMillin24 _contribs^talk 23:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Was it ever really a single in the UK?

[ Copied here from Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sunday Bloody Sunday (song) ]
I'm not sure the single was released in the UK at all, but radio airplay alone may have allowed it to chart at #7. I'm inclined to trust U2Wanderer.org, but the information seems to be conflicting. McMillin24 contribstalk 18:13, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, I think you may be right that it was never a single in the UK. Look at http://www.polyhex.com/music/chartruns/chartruns.php, which shows chart runs on the UK Singles Chart, type in U2, and it shows the runs for "New Year's Day" and "Two Hearts Beat As One" but not SBS. http://www.everyhit.com/searchsec.php shows the same thing. http://www.chartstats.com/artistinfo.php?id=416 also shows no entry for SBS. The U2 Wanderer entry at http://www.u2wanderer.org/disco/sing012.html does not show any catalog information for a UK single; its "UK: 7" entry at the top could be a typo or mistake, or maybe a reference to some album-tracks-airplay chart that was not the UK Singles Chart. So unless we find some evidence that indicates SBS was a UK single, I think we have to conclude it was not, and revise the article accordingly. Wasted Time R 15:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I've taken Wasted Time R's advice and removed mention of its charting peaks in the UK for now. I've also added a reference for the Dutch chart; however, the peak on that chart was in late 1985—is our release date wrong (or not accurate worldwide)? McMillin24 _contribs^talk 01:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

It's possible that the song was released as a single more than once. Other U2 songs that come to mind in this format are I Will Follow, Walk On, All Because of You, and Sometimes You Can't Make it On Your Own. MelicansMatkin 04:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Quotes -> prose

As the FAC has pointed out, we've got two large quotes bulking up the article, and they should be converted to prose. I don't mind letting the first one go to prose, but I think the second quote (the Denver speech) needs to be preserved somewhere in its entirety...maybe on Wikiquote, perhaps as an audio file. Thoughts? McMillin24 _contribs^talk 01:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

It might be more manageable if you trimmed it of verbiage. + Ceoil 01:57, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

I would leave that cquote the way it is. It's the climax of the "story" of this article, and deserves to be very prominent. Wasted Time R 02:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Problem is its disproportionally large in a series of choppy paras.+ Ceoil 02:06, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

How about "<blockquote>-ing" it, in addition to a couple of removed sentences? I'm not sure why it's only 75% of the width of the page—my 1280x1024 resolution creates a big white space underneath the image at that width. How about:

I've had enough of Irish Americans who haven't been back to their country in twenty or thirty years come up to me and talk about the resistance, the revolution back home…and the glory of the revolution…and the glory of dying for the revolution. Fuck the revolution! […] What's the glory in taking a man from his bed and gunning him down in front of his wife and his children? […] Where's the glory in bombing a Remembrance Day parade of old age pensioners, their medals taken out and polished up for the day. […] To leave them dying or crippled for life or dead under the rubble of the revolution, that the majority of the people in my country don't want. No more!

I've left (in my opinion, at least) the harshest condemnations in, and it's cut down to four lines of text at 1280x1024 (five lines at 1024x768). McMillin24 _contribs^talk 02:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Now that the main quote is in the much less obtrusive format, I've restored it to its original text, which isn't visibly that much longer. This is better because whenever you pepper a quote with "[...]"'s, the sharp reader wonders whether the stuff you're leaving out changes the meaning of what you're leaving in. So when it's practical (such as here), it's better to give the full passage. Wasted Time R 13:24, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Songwriter credit missing

What is the songwriter credit for this song? --83.253.36.136 19:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Covers

The Covers section seems to be getting a little cluttered. I've tried to clean it up a bit by removing random live performances of the song by other artists, but I figured I should put these questions out there for debate. What covers should be included (live vs. studio)? How notable should the artist, or performance be? Should the cover versions have references to verify their authenticity?

I personally feel that a notable artist such as the Red Hot Chili Peppers or Royal Philharmonic Orchestra should be kept, as should some more (can I say notorious?) versions - the George W. Bush version comes to mind here. Some versions mentioned, like the one done by The Living End seem a little obscure. And I also think that references could only help the article, especially if it is to be nominated for FA again. MelicansMatkin 04:09, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Song sample

The sample appears to be corrupted and it won't play. Could someone fix it/reupload it/upload a new copy as a new file? Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 18:20, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Iran Protests

The song was modified again at the July 2, 2009 Barcelona show in support for the 2009 Iranian election protests. Someone needs to add that in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.176.105.21 (talk) 04:16, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

No they don't. The article doesn't need to list every instance in which the song has been performed (6,000!) and the context. Wikipedia is not a directory. There is probably already too much of this in there. The important thing to note is that the song is a staple of U2's live performances, and that it is often used to highlight various world conflicts, with a few – a few – examples. Lampman (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

GA Sweeps

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review.

Let me just first of all say that the article is a very good piece on a deserving subject (speaking with a little bit of a bias as a big U2 fan...) It has kept up really well, probably much due to an FA-nomination in 2007 (where it was actually damn close to passing). There were a couple of faulty links due to careless editing, but I fixed that. I also removed some POV language and peacock terms, like "an epic performance" and "lamenting". Although the referencing is quite good, there are probably a few statements that would need citations, with today's increasingly strict citation policies. Some examples are:

• "the emergence of major chords creates a feeling of hope"
• "the lyrics appear to disown that anger"
• "In the U.S., the song...helped exposed U2 to a mainstream American rock audience"
• "These performances were highly effective with U2's audience (at the time, U2 was most popular as a college rock act)."

Also, there is nothing on writing and recording in the lead, which should be a summary of the whole article, and this is a rather major topic. Lampman (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2009 (UTC)