Talk:Sun Bowl (stadium)

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Caps

The "stadium" is natural disambiguation with respect to Sun Bowl, as the article lead makes clear, and not always treated as part of the name. Better sources (books) often have it lower case, esp. when in sentence context. So per MOS:CAPS, capitalization is not necessary. My fix was reverted and reverted it back. Dicklyon (talk) 18:16, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to be blunt here. You do not understand natural disambiguation in theory or practice. For a proper name, it means using a longer, more formal name if the most common short name is ambiguous, as is the case here. So if "Stadium" is an actual part of its formal name, then it should be capitalized as a proper noun. If it is not, then it should be placed in brackets, lowercase, as to not place it in brackets is to falsely claim that it is part of the proper name, per the disambiguation guidelines for proper nouns.

When newspapers and books use the phrase "Sun Bowl stadium" they are indeed disambiguating, but they are not falsely claiming "stadium" to be part of the actual name; it they were, they'd capitalize it as part of the proper noun. Wikipedia article titles are not sentences in running prose and do not follow the same style conventions, even if they are in sentence case. The current title is unacceptable under the guidelines, properly interpreted.

Truthfully, this is not a pure Google test situation, and just repeating a string of characters because that's the way other publications do it is a poor substitute for actual comprehension. oknazevad (talk) 15:43, 18 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 July 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Jenks24 (talk) 13:13, 5 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sun Bowl stadium → Sun Bowl (stadium) – In line with Rose Bowl (stadium), whereby the disambiguator is placed in parenthesis so as not to falsely claim it is actually part of the name. Unless it is actually part of the name, meaning the title should be Sun Bowl Stadium. Either way, the current title is made up, with a total failure to actually understand natural disambiguation, just like the contested move at Rose Bowl (stadium) from a few months ago. oknazevad (talk) 18:34, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 19:42, 27 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom 76.120.162.73 (talk) 18:18, 30 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom and precedent. Sounder Bruce 02:32, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 5 January 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved to the proposed title at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 14:30, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sun Bowl (stadium) → Sun Bowl stadium – The previous (2015) move rationale made no sense. Natural disambiguation with Sun Bowl capped and stadium lowercase clearly indicates that stadium is not part of the proper name, though it is part of how the Sun Bowl stadium is frequently referred to. Moving back to natural disambiguation makes the most sense here. Dicklyon (talk) 04:19, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move. The 2015 RM was done to align with Rose Bowl (stadium) among others; the common name for the stadium is the Sun Bowl, not the Sun Bowl stadium. O.N.R. ^(talk) 07:14, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per prior discussions and precedent with Rose Bowl (stadium), Cotton Bowl (stadium) and others.

Let's overanalyze this, why don't we? The reason "Sun Bowl stadium" is an unacceptable name is that it shifts the noun in the title from being the actual name of the stadium, "Sun Bowl", to a common noun, "stadium", with an attributive noun, that is a proper-noun-derived adjective. Makes no sense to not actually title the article with the proper noun of the unique object. Now, there is the complication that the namesake annual bowl game exists (and is older – the stadium was named for the game), so for technical reasons (the reason disambiguation is even a thing on Wikipedia in the first place) we need a unique title for each article. It's already been decided that the bowl game is the primary topic of the unadorned title, so the stadium article needs a disambiguator. Parenthetical disambiguation is used because it fulfills the requirement without falling into the trap of not actually using the name of the actual object that is the subject of the article as the actual title. It also aids technical matters like the WP:PIPETRICK. Most importantly, it actually requires a true understanding of titling instead of just pulling out something because it matches a string of characters in a Google search. See my comments in previous sections on the talk page. oknazevad (talk) 13:38, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page discussions. Giant Snowman 18:29, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - the stadium is either called 'Sun Bowl' (in which case the article should be at [[Sun Bowl (stadium)) or it is called 'Sun Bowl Stadium' (in which case the article should be at Sun Bowl Stadium). The proposed new name is wrong either way. Giant Snowman 18:35, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.