Talk:Summit High School (New Jersey)
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Aliallen2 (talk) 11:17, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
Comment
[edit]I am glad to see this recreated. It looks to me like, after it was tagged for deletion (as a nonsense page), it was made into a real stub but then deleted anyway by accident. Thanks! -- SCZenz 17:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- Yeah, I had stubbed it and it got deleted anyway. I wasn't torn up enough to have called for undeletion, though :) Glad to see it's back. RasputinAXP talk contribs 19:13, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Good job Alansohn
[edit]The former article subject title "Summit senior high school" always didn't sound right somehow but I never thought about it more than that, and the idea of fixing it had not even crossed my mind, but thanks for doing this; it is much better now. Yes, everybody I know calls it "Summit high school" so the article title reflects what people actually call it.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:34, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
Sourcing for Ahrre Maros in Summit HS article
[edit]Regarding Ahrre Maros and Summit High School, does Opendoor.com meet the requirements of WP:RS? It appears to be user-generated content that would not be valid under Wikipedia policy. Are there any newspaper or magazine articles that would clearly establish that Maros attended the school? And in what way do the questions I asked that you removed from this page constitute "extraneous comments which make another Wikipedian look unprofessional"? Alansohn (talk) 16:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- Frankly, this is such a minor issue, and you are making such a big deal about it -- why? What's the big deal here? It seems to me you're trying to follow the letter of the rules (dot your i's, cross your t's) while missing the whole spirit of the rules. I find this demeaning to me personally and highly unprofessional. Ahrre Maros told me he went to Summit High School; why would he lie about this? I found a Summit High reunion page mentioning his name, with a comment from him. Do you honestly think that anybody would make up such a page -- like, why would anybody fabricate a reunion page -- for what possible purpose? In addition, there are published sources saying that his injured friend -- Keith Knost -- also attended Summit High School, and this makes perfect sense and all fits together. Wikipedia's reliable sources is a guideline only -- and it is perfectly reasonable to apply the reunion page as a reference in this instance. If this was a highly disputed topic of great importance, then better quality references would be called for. Ditto, the whole business about Lawton C. Johnson -- it is simply a part of being WP:CIVIL that you might learn to trust some of the people around here. Johnson attended SHS; so did Maros. Please understand we are all volunteers here, Alan, with much better ways to spend our time rather than dickering over non-issues.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 22:01, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
- Let's go to Wikipedia:Verifiability, the bedrock principle of Wikipedia, which states that "Verifiability on Wikipedia is the reader's ability to check cited sources that directly support the information in an article." In terms of "What counts as a reliable source", WP:V specifies that "Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." The sources provided for Lawton C. Johnson are reliable and verifiable and directly establish that he attended the school. The sources for Ahrre Maros do not meet this standard. The fact that someone "told you" that he went to Summit High School is the very definition of a violation of Wikipedia:No original research; It is your research, and as such it cannot be verified under any circumstances. I don't accuse you of lying, and there is enough aroma of a connection to keep the entry here (though many other editors would delete it), but a legitimate reliable and verifiable source is still needed. Just as President Reagan suggested with the Soviet Union, here on Wikipedia we need to "trust, but verify". I don't trust any individual, but I trust reliable and verifiable third-party sources because that's what Wikipedia requires me to do. Nor does Wikipedia (or I) trust a reunion page at a site like Opendoor.com, which can be created and updated by anyone. The one reliable source we have says that his friend attended Summit High School, but all of my friends didn't attend the same high school as I did, and there's no reason that we should make that assumption here. I have removed the reference and await identification of an appropriate verifiable source in the near future. Alansohn (talk) 03:05, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
- Well, let's agree to disagree. Technically you're correct about the letter of the rules. But, in everything, judgment is required, balance, perspective -- and it is reasonably evident that Ahrre Maros graduated from Summit High School, and that this is not a case where exacting reference requirements are needed.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 14:29, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
- Let's go to Wikipedia:Verifiability, the bedrock principle of Wikipedia, which states that "Verifiability on Wikipedia is the reader's ability to check cited sources that directly support the information in an article." In terms of "What counts as a reliable source", WP:V specifies that "Articles should be based on reliable, third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy." The sources provided for Lawton C. Johnson are reliable and verifiable and directly establish that he attended the school. The sources for Ahrre Maros do not meet this standard. The fact that someone "told you" that he went to Summit High School is the very definition of a violation of Wikipedia:No original research; It is your research, and as such it cannot be verified under any circumstances. I don't accuse you of lying, and there is enough aroma of a connection to keep the entry here (though many other editors would delete it), but a legitimate reliable and verifiable source is still needed. Just as President Reagan suggested with the Soviet Union, here on Wikipedia we need to "trust, but verify". I don't trust any individual, but I trust reliable and verifiable third-party sources because that's what Wikipedia requires me to do. Nor does Wikipedia (or I) trust a reunion page at a site like Opendoor.com, which can be created and updated by anyone. The one reliable source we have says that his friend attended Summit High School, but all of my friends didn't attend the same high school as I did, and there's no reason that we should make that assumption here. I have removed the reference and await identification of an appropriate verifiable source in the near future. Alansohn (talk) 03:05, 7 March 2012 (UTC)
Art pictures needed
[edit]I spoke with Principal Sears and emailed him. He said he would get in touch with Summit art instructors, to see about student art images being included here in Wikipedia. So far, a month later, nothing has happened. I encourage Summit art instructors to write something here. It would make the page more beautiful to look at and be informative as well, if we can get some interesting artwork here.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 14:29, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Forensics
[edit]Sources are needed for the successes of 2012-13 and 2013-14 school years. Is the student paper accessible online? Alternative Press, Patch, Independent Press, Star-Ledger would work fine, or nj.com too, if found please re-add the deleted material, thanx.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 18:57, 2 February 2014 (UTC)
Source in article for Summit High School for Jim Barr
[edit]Your question via email: "Source in article for Summit High School This edit to the article for Summit High School (New Jersey) adds this source, which mentions Summit (but not Summit High School). What does this source add to the article and why was it added and reinserted after it was removed with explanation? Alansohn (talk) 21:50, 15 October 2018 (UTC)."
- Answer from Aliallen2: Alansohn, in answer to your previous concern about the adequacy of the single reference (61) to the SHS Yearbook via ancestry.com, I expanded the citation to three (3) pages on which the student was mentioned or pictured. I thought this would be adequate to support the connection between the student and SHS (1958). hat accomplished, I reinserted a newspaper article that summarizes well decades of technical accomplishments by the notable SHS student for the general reader. In addition, a brief quotation from the article I would like to include in the citation comments on the student's very same abilities as the adjectives listed under his senior photograph in the SHS Yearbook (p. 16).This article mentions he grew up in Summit, NJ. I was not aware that every article had to mention SHS explicitly if that burden had been carried by a previous citation. If I had not believed that citation (61) clearly established the link, I would not have proceeded to reinsert citation (62). Please advise.Aliallen2 (talk) 00:59, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- Aliallen2, it doesn't help that I can't read the yearbook available through Ancestry.com, but the perpetual question is how to be sure that it's him and not someone who shares the sanme name. The second article connects him to Summit, but that belongs in his article and in the Summit, New Jersey article to establish his connection there, and not here for the high school as it doesn't establish a connection to the school. The best option would be a single source that unequivocally connects him to Summit High School, but that's not what we have here. Alansohn (talk) 02:49, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- Alansohn,Thank you for your explanation. I have found an online free source for the yearbook
- Aliallen2, it doesn't help that I can't read the yearbook available through Ancestry.com, but the perpetual question is how to be sure that it's him and not someone who shares the sanme name. The second article connects him to Summit, but that belongs in his article and in the Summit, New Jersey article to establish his connection there, and not here for the high school as it doesn't establish a connection to the school. The best option would be a single source that unequivocally connects him to Summit High School, but that's not what we have here. Alansohn (talk) 02:49, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
http://www.e-yearbook.com/sp/eybb?school=78149&year=1958 Should I add a reference to e-yearbook.com in the same form as the ancestry.com reference with page numbers? The value of ancestry.com in addition is that the student's entry brings up the birth certificate, residency in Summit, and the yearbook. Ancestry.com is available at most if not all public libraries in the U.S. for anyone who wants to validate the citation. I appreciate your help with this.Aliallen2 (talk) 11:17, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- Aliallen2, the gold standard would be a newspaper / magazine article or book that directly connects him to Summit High School. The combination of reliable sourcing from a a newspaper article that connects him to Summit plus the yearbook that matches is less than perfect, but a step in the right direction. Thanks for adding a publicly accessible version of the yearbook. Alansohn (talk) 14:06, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
No mention of Velvet Underground?
[edit]According to the wiki on Cale their first gig was here. Seems notable.96.240.128.124 (talk) 06:51, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
The article has some serious issues with WP:NOR and unsourced material in general. Some of the information is quite plainly WP:PROMOTION, and as such there are some clear grounds for removal. GuardianH (talk) 01:38, 19 September 2023 (UTC)