Talk:Sujit Choudhry

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Controversy

I have edited this section to include a short summary of the April 2017 settlements. I also don't think that this section has an excessive amount of intricate detail, and suggest removing the template saying that it does. LexLife (talk) 09:53, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

@Kkat.boro—the edits to what was formerly called the "Controversy" section and is now called "Later career" leave out an important point. While the report on the settlement does say that Professor Choudhry remains a tenured faculty member in good standing, it also says that he has agreed to resign in 2018. Leaving this out seems to misstate the import of the settlement. LexLife (talk) 16:22, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Agree with LexLife and altered Dryquail whw (talk) 03:57, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

The first sentence of the second paragraph says "In 2016 Choudhry stepped down from his position as dean of the University of California, Berkeley School of Law after sexually harassing an executive assistant". But it was never legally established that the sexual harassment took place. There was no court case, and no admission of guilt. Shouldn't this therefore read "allegedly sexually harassing"? Zalali (talk) 20:10, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

In saying that he did in fact sexually harass his executive assistant we are following what RS say. See e.g. the first of the three sources cited for this statement: A written report from Berkeley’s office for the prevention of harassment and discrimination concluded that Choudhry’s behavior had violated campus sexual harassment policies. The dean did not dispute the substance of Sorrell’s complaint, only whether the physical contact occurred several times a day or a few times a week, the report states. (emphasis added) [1] Generalrelative (talk) 02:08, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Restoring Controversy

All references to the 'controversy' were removed on 3 June 2018 by someone without an account (just an Ohio IP address). As they did not post here or add context to the change, I can only assume it was with malicious intent and reverted the change. Arichiv (talk) 23:56, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm just replying here to note that this seems to be an issue that crops up on this bio from time to time. I've just reverted a similar effort by an IP to cut all mention of the sexual harassment complaint and lawsuit: [2]. There should be some kind of a record here on Talk so that others can see the makings of a consensus that yes this material is definitely WP:DUE for this bio. Given the variety of sources which discuss it, the sexual harassment suit and its outcome clearly represent a large part of this figure's notability –– even in the context of his otherwise illustrious career. Generalrelative (talk) 02:03, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

Update suggestions for Choudhry article, January 2023

Dear Wikipedia Editor:

I am recommending updates to the entry for Canadian constitutional lawyer Sujit Choudhry. The structure of the article should be improved based on MOS:SNO. And, the latest details in the article are from 2017. I have a personal connection to Choudhry, and thus have a conflict of interest under Wikipedia policy.

1. After the “Early life” section please add a new section with the title “Legal career,” and please add the following sentences below as the section’s first paragraph (more suggested paragraphs will follow in the subsequent requests.

A Career section is standard in Wikipedia articles about almost all people, including lawyers and the standard practice is for it to be immediately after “Early life.” I looked at these Good Articles about lawyers as structure models for “section order”, as per MOS:SNO: e.g., Douglas P. Woodlock, Thomas Binger, Carrie Goldberg, and Miranda Du. Mostly I used secondary sources except to verify basic facts in a few places, such as dates and exact titles.

Legal career

• Choudhry joined the faculty of the University of Toronto in 1999 and received tenure in 2004. As of 2006 he was professor and the Scholl chair in law at the University of Toronto. From 2008 to 2011 he served as associate dean. Choudhry left the University of Toronto in 2011 when he was hired by New York University. At NYU, Choudhry was the Cecelia Goetz Professor of Law and the faculty director of the Center for Constitutional Transitions in 2012.

 Done Spencer^T•C 02:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

• In June 2014, Choudhry became Dean of Law at UC Berkeley.

 Done I also moved the other information regarding the sexual harassment lawsuit here since it relates to his time at UC Berkeley.

2. From the “Academic services” please move the first sentence to the end of the new “Legal career” section’s second paragraph to make a new fourth sentence. I’ve improved the sourcing – providing a more independent WP:Primary for the title of his professorship at Berkeley Law. I also slightly reworded it as two sentences:

Sentence to move from Academic services to Career:

• Choudhry was the first person of Indian origin to be named dean of a top U.S. law school. He was also named the I. Michael Heyman Professor of Law at Berkeley.

 Partly done I'm unable to access the linked article, but removed the first sentence because it is unclear what "top US law school" means. If he is the first person of Indian origin to be named dean of a U.S. law school, happy to add that in with a reference but it's unclear what that means.

3. In the new “Legal career” section, please add a subsection entitled “Notable Cases.” The first case represents Choudhry's principal role in litigating two related free-speech constitutional cases, as covered by one of Canada’s leading newspapers, The Globe and Mail.

Notable Cases

• In 2021, Choudhry represented Canadian author Joel Bakan in a lawsuit against Twitter, claiming Twitter’s refusal to publish a paid tweet promoting Bakan’s documentary The Corporation violated Bakan’s free speech rights; Choudhry also sued the Canadian government for failing to issue regulations that protect constitutional freedom of speech on technology platforms. In 2023, the Ontario Superior Court ruled against Twitter’s attempt to have the case thrown out.

 Done Spencer^T•C 02:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

4. In the new “Notable cases” sub-section, please add the following paragraph in chronological order. It also represents Choudhry principal role in litigating a constitutional case, as covered by one of Canada’s leading newspapers, Toronto Star.

• In 2021, Choudhry represented seven families in a citizenship case challenging the constitutionality of a 2009 change in the Canadian Citizenship Act. He argued that the law unconstitutionally cut off birthright citizenship to children born abroad to Canadian parents who were also born outside Canada, effectively making the children stateless persons.

 Done Spencer^T•C 02:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

5. In the new “Notable cases” subsection, please add the following paragraph in chronological order. It represents Choudhry’s prominent role in a public hearing case covered by Canada’s leading newspapers, Globe and Mail and Toronto Star.

• Choudhry also participated in the Public Order Emergency Commission hearing of Trudeau’s actions in October 2022. He cross-examined the Prime Minister about his decision to invoke the Emergencies Act. Choudhry questioned Trudeau on whether he properly disclosed information about deliberations leading to the decision.

 Done Spencer^T•C 02:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank youTimbuktu1900 (talk) 20:55, 3 February 2023 (UTC) Timbuktu1900 (talk) 20:55, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

See my replies inline to the requested edits above. Spencer^T•C 02:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

References

BLPN discussion

There is a discussion at WP:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Sujit Choudhry concerning the allegations of harassment described in the article. Timbuktu1900 (talk) 17:57, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Requesting review sections of a proposal not previously reviewed

@Tristario: Thanks so much for your help with the BLPN post (now archived here: [3].) As I explained on that post, I have a conflict of interest as a personal connection of Choudhry’s. I appreciate your taking the time to review some of the requested changes. I wonder if you now might have the time to look at the requests you didn’t have time to review before and to consider some additional changes:

• I appreciate your including the denial in the body of the article. But I think this should be in the lead as well. It seems crucial. He continued to deny the accusations even at the time of the announcement of the settlement, (critically, none of the settlement went to the accuser). This is well documented in the sources, such as the Toronto Globe & Mail. [4]

Right now the sentence about this reads as follows:

He stepped down from his position as dean in 2016 after being accused of sexually harassing an executive assistant, paying a $100,000 settlement but retaining his position on the faculty.

I think this version is more accurate and appropriate for BLP reasons:

He stepped down from his position as dean in 2016 after being accused of sexually harassing an executive assistant, a charge he consistently denied. The case was eventually settled out of court in 2017, with the university dropping all disciplinary proceedings and allowing him to remain on the faculty in good standing, and Choudhry agreeing to pay $50,000 to the accusers attorneys and another $50,000 to charities of the former assistant’s choosing.

• Regarding Point B in the previous post, Choudhry’s racial discrimination lawsuit against the University, prior to the settlement, is very important context for these events. It alleges that there was a history of similar behavior by while male professors who were not subjected to serious disciplinary action. The lawsuit was covered in Bloomberg Law [5] and the Toronto Globe and Mail [6]. I’d ask that you please include this.

• In part C of the BLPN post, an important aspect of the settlement is that all disciplinary proceedings against Choudhry were dropped and he was allowed to remain faculty in good standing. This is not currently reflected on Wikipedia and it really should be, consistent with WP:Balance. There isn’t any contradiction amongst the sources on this point. The sources establish that the University dismissed all disciplinary actions and Choudry remained tenured. One can even tell from the reaction of the accusing party that she considered the settlement to vindicate Choudhry. She said that the settlement “insults all who suffer harassment at the hands of those with power and privilege.” [7]

Timbuktu1900 (talk) 19:51, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

I added some details, which I think seem to be generally agreed upon by sources. Tristario (talk) 04:17, 2 June 2023 (UTC)

References

Request Edits July 2024

Hi, I have some suggestions for some additional revisions to this article. As I’ve reported previously, I have a personal tie to Sujit Choudhry.

1.

The sixth sentence of the UC Berkeley and sexual harassment lawsuit subsection of this article should be removed. The source cited in it is almost entirely about events already covered elsewhere on this page, with one half one sentence about a single student group protest (not “protests”, which is a WP:WEASEL). There is no detail given about the protest itself, so we don’t know if it was 5 students or 100, though if it was a large number, the source would almost certainly have reported it. A small student protest is not relevant enough to Choudhry’s career to justify inclusion in the article. There are dozens of student protests every year at Berkeley.

Here’s the sentence in question:

His return to the Berkeley campus in September 2016 as a member of faculty was met by student protests.

 Partly done, SFGate gives 100, though the actual number is irrelevant compared to the fact that it was covered in multiple independent sources [8] [9] [10]. I've swapped "protests" for "protest", you're right there was only the one as far as I can tell. Rusalkii (talk)

2.

Please move the final sentence of the current UC Berkeley and sexual harassment lawsuit subsection up so that it is the seventh sentence in the section. This needs to be moved into the proper chronological order of events. At present it’s out of order at the end after the settlement, whereas in reality it happened roughly when he resigned as dean.

Here’s the sentence in question (which I’ve slightly altered to correct a typo in Choudhry’s name):

Choudhry sued Berkeley, alleging racial discrimination, but dropped hist complaint following the settlement.

Not done for now Do you mean after "The lawsuit resulted in settlement agreements, under which Choudhry agreed to pay a total of $50,000 to Sorrell's attorneys, a contribution that his lawyer William Taylor called "relatively minimal.""? This breaks up the discussion of the penalty in a kind of weird way. I don't think it makes sense anywhere before the introduction of the settlement, either, so I'm not really seeing a logical place to move it, though I agree ideally it would be in chronological order. Rusalkii (talk) 21:25, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

3.

The present Sujit Choudhry#UC Berkeley and sexual harassment lawsuit subsection is WP:UNDUE within the context of Career because it provides excessive details about an event that falls well outside what is typical for Career sections in Good Articles, even where there is a personal controversy. Controversies are usually concisely summarized in the Career section of GAs. See, for example: Leo J. O’Donovan GA

However, this level of detail is required to discuss the event because it is so nuanced and requires WP:BALANCE. Therefore, I suggest a brief summation in the Career section and for the full event to be described in a new Controversy section. A separate section is sometimes used concerning very detailed controversies. Under the Style guide, you can look to similar articles for structure (MOS:SNO). (For examples of this structure, see, e.g., Tory Burch#Controversy, Tim Watson-Munro#Controversy.)

Please change the current Sujit Choudhry#UC Berkeley and sexual harassment lawsuit subsection of the Legal career section into a new Controversies section of the article, to be placed just about the Selected publications section.

 Not done I'm generally opposed to "controversy" sections - ideally they should be worked into the rest of the text, for further context, as they are here. Rusalkii (talk) 21:25, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

4.

Please add the following new entries into the Sujit Choudhry#Selected publications section, as these three volumes are missing from Choudhry’s publications list:

Sujit Choudhry (2019) Security Sector Reform and Constitutional Transitions (Oxford University Press).

George Anderson & Sujit Choudhry (2019) Territory and Power in Constitutional Transitions (Oxford University Press).

Sujit Choudhry, Michaela Hailbronner & Mattias Kumm (2024) Global Canons in an Age of Contestation: Debating Foundational Texts of Constitutional Democracy and Human Rights (Oxford University Press).

 Done, though note that this is selected publications and is not supposed to be an exhaustive list, just some of this more notable works. Rusalkii (talk) 21:25, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

5.

The second sentence of the second paragraph of the lead focuses on a controversy, covered in the body of the article, in which Choudhry was accused of harassment but after extensive investigation resulted in the university dropping all disciplinary action against him and his retaining his tenure. It’s a complicated series of events, which also includes a counter-claim by Choudhry that he was singled out based on racial discrimination. Since the accusations are so serious, and the resolution was largely in Choudhry’s favor, I request that this topic be removed from the lead. A balanced recounting of what’s in the body of the article would be long and disproportionate in reflecting the page as a whole.

Please remove the second sentence of the second paragraph of the lead:

He stepped down from his position as dean in 2016 after being accused of sexually harassing an executive assistant, which he denied, paying a $100,000 settlement but retaining his position on the faculty.

 Not done, the lead should summarize the body, and this is a large fraction of the body and also explains a major change in his career. This seems like a relatively balanced summary - he was accused, he denied it, here's the official resolution. Rusalkii (talk) 21:25, 26 August 2024 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your attention to this matter. @Tristario: who previously worked on revisions to the controversy content in the body of the article. Timbuktu1900 (talk) 18:43, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

References