Talk:Suicide/Archive 8

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Archive 7

Archive 8

Hatnote and trigger words

I'd propose to have the phrase "kill yourself" not appear in the intro of the article. Read in the wrong mindset can act as an imperative trigger phrase. - Klein Muçi (talk) 00:48, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

The hatnote is currently unnecessary as Kill yourself no longer redirects to Suicide, but instead to Kill Yourself, a disambiguation page. This change was made without discussion by an IP in July 2021 and warrants discussion, so I have nominated it at RfD. If the consensus in that RfD is to target this article, then the hatnote should remain; otherwise, it can be removed. Elli (talk | contribs) 02:14, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I have removed the hatnote, since it's unnecessary. If the RfD decides to move it back here, then I guess we'll have to add the hat note back, but it seems unnecessary. I am sympathetic to those who point out that the language is triggering. It is at least jarring. --Rockstone^{Send me a message!} 08:26, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

Lower-case kill yourself should redirect here instead of to treatment of things that use it for a title. The concept of triggering is triggering. ("Wikipedia is not censored" is specifically posted and linked at the top of this page.) Even so, to avoid legitimate trauma or ill effects, it'd still be better to handle the topic down in the #See also section rather than at the very top of the article. — LlywelynII 19:09, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

"Killed myself" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Killed myself and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 December 2#Killed myself until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Anarchyte (talk) 10:21, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Prevention as a hatnote?

Is this some sort of compromise in response to the sporadic requests for a link to a crisis line? I can see no ambiguity within the context of search terms; no one's going to end up here expecting to end up at suicide prevention. An anonymous username, not my real name 18:16, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

There's a header on this page with a link to the corresponding RfC. DonIago (talk) 21:00, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Help for suicidal people

I think there should be two hatnotes below the existing ones. The first one should link to the Wikipedia article on suicide crisis lines, saying something like: If you are feeling suicidal, you deserve to feel better and can find worldwide crisis lines from people who will listen to you from this article: List of suicide crisis lines

And the second one should say: For a list of resources actively maintained by the Wikimedia Foundation, see Meta:Mental health resources.

They should be a couple spaces below the already existing ones so it'll catch the eye of suicidal people immediately Stephanie921 (talk) 10:13, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

Adding this type of hatnote gets discussed every few months on this talk page. It hasn't received enough support to achieve consensus, I also suggest you read the old discussions in the archives so as not to retread old ground.--Megaman en m (talk) 11:48, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

When my battery's charged I will, although if it hasn't achieved consensus yet I don't see that as a reason not to try again. People might feel differently this time Stephanie921 (talk) 11:52, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

We shouldn't even have the "for information on prevention" note in the first place. We definitely shouldn't be adding any more. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 10:47, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

There should be a link to support services for suicidal people. -cspan02 (talk) 23:05, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Did you read the information in the banner at the top regarding this? DonIago (talk) 02:43, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Well one reason "not to try" is because it's officially endorsing certain beliefs and by extent condemning other ones. Not everybody believes in the same things, including regarding suicide, not everybody thinks it's unethical, or something to be prevented, some believe the exact opposite, different people and societies across time view it in many many different ways.

It's not our place to support certain beliefs and not all the rest. Wikipedia should be a place of impartiality. The article should only contain the relevant and unbiased information on the topic, not prejudicial notes. 76.253.186.239 (talk) 17:10, 21 December 2022 (UTC)

This has been discussed many times in the past, but yet I strongly believe this should be added in some way or another. I will admit than in times in the past, this singular Wikipedia article almost ended up in my death. I think that while Wikipedia should have a neutral point of view, it is just morally wrong to ignore what the article could do, and have this page without any form of advice. The content certainly shouldn't be censored, but we don't want to cause or encourage suicide without at least giving a little bit of help. I think there should at least be one final consensus either way, and to leave a notice about that at the top of this page to stop further discussion. Has ArbCom discussed this at all? ~ Eejit43 (talk) 03:21, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

I hear you, however, you'd be forcing your view/beliefs onto others.

While you say: "it is just morally wrong to ignore what the article could do, and have this page without any form of advice", and: "but we don't want to cause or encourage suicide without at least giving a little bit of help". I would contend for just the opposite, suicide is neither morally wrong, nor morally neutral, but rather it's morally good, and trying to make people doubt themselves or not due so is just morally wrong; and that it's morally wrong to perpetuate the idea that suicide is universally viewed as unequivocally wrong. I'd say we should definitely give help, help for the people who wish to perform suicide to do so comfortably and effectively, something that people are often deprived of when they do die. I'd say any act of prevention any barrier is extremely cruel and wrong.

We all believe different things. What I said wasn't some joke hypothetical, that's genuinely what I believe, but I'm also not one to dismiss other people's perspectives or to force my view onto them, I'd say we should represent all view in the article itself, and not chose to give one special weight disregarding all others. 76.253.186.239 (talk) 23:09, 29 December 2022 (UTC)

I didn't think I'd actually be able to see the other side, but I do understand where you are coming from. I think a simple hatnote with a link to meta:Mental health resources would be fine. Like on this talk page: "The Wikimedia Foundation's Trust and Safety team maintains a list of crisis support resources." That is just a statement of fact, and doesn't have any biases.

Coming back to this later: abiding by Wikipedia policies is important, and the existing links on Suicide and Suicide methods to Suicide prevention are pretty good- maybe nothing more is needed? The request for comment also provided some good insight into reasons why and why not. So in that case I guess maybe there is nothing else to be done... I'll think on it some more! ~ Eejit43 (talk) 02:26, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

The ONLY question that is relevant is "Is including such a note encyclopedic?" And the answer is "no". Coverage of such services in the article and links to articles on such service are, a "get help here" note isn't. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 15:29, 30 December 2022 (UTC)

Something similar to a simple hatnote like they proposed is absolutely not something “forcing your view/beliefs onto others.”. I understand your reasoning in your comments but I heavily disagree. Justanotherguy54 (talk) 18:38, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

Fortunately, suicide is illegal..that keeps people from doing it Anonymous8206 (talk) 23:04, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

That's just factually inaccurate. You might want to read the article. DonIago (talk) 23:22, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

Suicide legislation#Laws in individual jurisdictions (table) --Dustfreeworld (talk) 15:32, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

The point probably wasn't that it is legal, the point was likely that the illegality of it doesn't stop people from doing it. ~ Eejit43 (talk) 16:57, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

I really, really hope you aren't serious... ~ Eejit43 (talk) 23:24, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

I believe they were being sarcastic Justanotherguy54 (talk) 11:33, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

"Killed yourself" listed at Redirects for discussion

The redirect Killed yourself has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 29 § Killed yourself until a consensus is reached. An anonymous username, not my real name 18:37, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

ADHD shouldn’t be listed here as a mental disorder. It’s not a mental health condition but is a neurodevelopmental condition or neurodivergence. 213.31.91.185 (talk) 18:16, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Neurodevelopmental conditions are a type of mental disorder. Red Rock Canyon (talk) 06:04, 11 March 2024 (UTC)