Talk:Subaltern (military)

Page history note

This article used to contain information about both the military rank and the term in postcolonialism. I have undeleted the early history to subaltern so authors can be properly attributed. I also merged the history of Talk:Subaltern. Graham87 01:14, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Add Picture of Queen during WWII

During WWII the Queen was a second Subaltern, I was wondering if it was acceptable to insert a photo of her (during the war) with an annotation to that effect. Source: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/the-women-of-the-second-world-war#:~:text=With%20thousands%20of%20men%20away,during%20the%20Second%20World%20War.&text=The%20most%20notable%20member%20of,was%20the%20then%20Princess%20Elizabeth.

The Picture I want to insert - at the source - is under crown copyright. Does that prohibit me from using it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by RayaanIrani (talk • contribs) 20:36, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

@RayaanIrani: I'm blind so I can't answer questions about the suitability of an image for an article, but I do know that an image under crown copyright wouldn't be suitable here ... see {{Non-free Crown copyright}}. Graham87 02:07, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Mistake

Dear Wikipedia: This page on military subalterns is giving out mistaken info. Captains are *NOT* subalterns. Subalterns are Lieutenants and Second Lieutenants. Your own links cited as references make this clear -- see: (1) the dictionary.com definition of subaltern, which clearly states "below the rank of captain," and (2) the explanation CanadianSoliders.com, to which you link, which explains that they are "either a Lieutenant or 2nd Lieutenant." 104.246.140.55 (talk) 20:54, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. That was the result of these edits by Firsteleventh, which I accepted in good faith at the time (I don't know anything about this subject and this article is only on my watchlist because of my message above). Doing some very basic research it seems the meaning of this term may have shifted in different places and we'd need reliable sources to explain the shift ... this Australian Army page says that captains are actually subalterns, for instance. I might just hand this one over to the people at WikiProject Military history. I've restored the definition back to the long-standing version for now, as a stable starting point. Graham87 08:31, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Graham87, I see your link to the Australian Army. I can only confirm this. The adjutant of an infantry battalion is usually a captain and is the senior "subaltern" of the battalion. Regards, Cinderella157 (talk) 11:34, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Hi Graham87, in the British Army a captain would definitely not be referred to as a subaltern: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/subaltern (the first 20 years of my life were spent living in army establishments, so I knew many subalterns)! Anne (talk) 13:25, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

The term was occasionally used by the US Army in its earlier days, but it always referred to lieutenants (usually a second lieutenant). It was never an official term, though. Intothatdarkness 13:50, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Formally, the British Army did class captains as subalterns. However, in normal usage the term only referred (and refers) to lieutenants and second lieutenants. So, it is correct to say that technically captains are subalterns, but they are never, ever referred to as such. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:29, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

The British Queen's Regs considers captains and subalterns to be different. In the Australian Army though, all junior officers are considered subalterns. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:11, 14 June 2022 (UTC)