Talk:Strangford (Assembly constituency)

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Counts

@RandomCanadian The issue with the count at the moment is that it isn't clear to the reader whether Armstrong's votes are still "live." I believe they are and therefore they should be displayed as they will make a crucial difference to the result. Valenciano (talk) 20:11, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Valenciano: The votes are not live any further. Excess votes (those over the quota) were transferred over in round two; and the rest will not impact the result whatsoever (look for an STV explainer in the newspapers, or at Single transferable vote) RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 20:14, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

RandomCanadian thanks, but I know exactly how STV elections work. Candidates are either eliminated or surpluses transferred, but the two are never done in the same count, so Armstrong's votes are still "live." Have a look here at an official results sheet where no votes have been removed from her (it's also why there are no fractional votes, which there would be if a surplus had been transferred.) Or alternatively have a look at counts 3 and 4 at Belfast_East_(Assembly_constituency)#2016. Long had a surplus of 171, the bottom two candidates had 219.76 votes combined. The 3rd lowest candidate had 482.36 yet, rather than doing the lot together, they distributed the votes of the eliminated candidates in count 3, then Long's surplus in count 4.

We are doing readers a grave disservice by presenting it this way as it isn't obvious that Armstrong's votes are still in play and they make a significant difference. With them, her running mate will probably overtake the SDLP and be elected on the latter's transfers. Without Armstrong's transfers, SDLP will stay ahead of Alliance's Mathison but not have enough to overtake TUV. Have a look also here at another official results sheet where Armstrong is still shown as having 7015 votes. Valenciano (talk) 20:43, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Further to that, whose votes were transferred at count 7 in Strangford in 2017, if not Armstrong's? Why wasn't that done at count 5 if it was possible to combine eliminated votes and surpluses in the same count? Valenciano (talk) 20:52, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know about misleading readers, but all other articles and tables about elections using STV do not include the votes of candidates who have been elected in subsequent rounds. This is also done in other outlets outside of Wikipedia (for ex., the "count results" table at the bottom here). For consistency, we should stick to the same format. If you wish to change it, I'd suggest a discussion at a more centralised place (WikiProject Elections and Referendums? if that's active) would be more appropriate. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 20:55, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Really what drew my attention to it was hearing a TV commentator (who I know often checks on here) apparently not realising that the surplus was still live, as this way of presenting it doesn't make it clear. You often have to look back through previous counts to work out whose votes are being transferred. From memory it was presented differently years back but then a user took it on him/herself to standardise it, in a way which makes it less clear to readers. You're totally right that due to the impact on multiple articles, it needs a centralised discussion and probably there at WikiProject Elections and Referendums. As it's just passed midnight here I'll probably do it tomorrow. All the best, Valenciano (talk) 21:02, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Adding, yes, my memory was correct. Here for example. Valenciano (talk) 21:07, 6 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]