Talk:Stephanie Adams

Fully to Semi

I really think the admin who reduced the protection of this page is asking for more disruption and frivolity. The article was "quiet" for so long only because of the full protection level. This bio is probably being being wiki watched and secretly watched by so many people, it might be best to remain cautious. Just my opinion. Tfortrouble (talk) 23:26, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

Hmmmm, what is this link directly below my post about psychotherapy? It must be a technical error because I did not post it. Can someone please fix it? Cheers Tfortrouble (talk) 23:30, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

The link was a reference. Now fixed (I had it dumped above, where it belonged). -- Hoary (talk) 06:04, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

There are only seven articles under indefinite full protection and only one (because of an Arbcom case) had that protection set before July 2014. Articles simply shouldn't be indefinitely fully protected and then forgotten. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 13:32, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Speaking as the unprotecting admin, I assure you that this article is being watched by more than one administrator to make sure the unprotection doesn't go wrong. Given the article's history, this was never going to be an unprotect-and-run. If anything does go wrong now, renewed protection (or pending changes, or any necessary blocks or topic bans) can be applied as soon as they're needed by any of the admins who are supervising here. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! (talk) 15:04, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Much appreciation in regards to the responses. Cheers. Tfortrouble (talk) 20:25, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2018

Stephanie Adams died this morning. Jmlittleton (talk) 16:30, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

References

I would like to wait on this edit until an official spokesman states what happened. Anonymous sources close to the investigation aren't really BLP-compliant. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:35, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Not yet. Further, the sources currently reporting this story are the New York Post and the National Enquirer—hardly the bastions of the journalism industry or models of reliable sources. If the Times runs a story, then I think we can mention something, but right now, I don't think it's in keeping with WP:BLP to add this yet. —C.Fred (talk) 16:37, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

@SarekOfVulcan: ABC news is reporting the story [1] based on "police sources". I think we're getting closer to meeting the RS/V/BLP standards and might be there; do you? —C.Fred (talk) 16:39, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Dead after a fall, I'd consider verified. Jumped, I wouldn't. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:44, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

• I propose the following text for the personal life section, with no mention in the intro at this time (other than to add the date):

On the evening of May 17, 2018, Adams and her son checked into a 25th-floor penthouse in the Gotham Hotel. The next morning, both were found dead on a second-floor balcony. Law enforcement officials are still investigating but say they apparently jumped.(cite news for this AP story: [2])

@SarekOfVulcan: Representative and verifiable? —C.Fred (talk) 16:56, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

@C.Fred: First two sentences good - last one not verifiable, imho. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:04, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

@SarekOfVulcan: Unless ABC and the AP are talking to the same people, we've got multiple media outlets' sources saying the same thing. That's why I attributed and hendged with "apparently". —C.Fred (talk) 17:07, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

@C.Fred: Given the apparent history of domestic violence, I'm very hesitant to say anything. And I'll bet you they are talking to the same people - I'd like to hope there's a minimal number of people willing to blab about an investigation in progress. --17:12, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Valid point about DV. I've added the two sentences and source to the article, I've added the {{Recent death}} template, and I've placed a comment in the Personal life section suggesting that people don't add a cause or speculative cause at this point and pointing them to this discussion. —C.Fred (talk) 17:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Looks good. Thanks. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:31, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

In the serious RS now. [3] [4] I won't be editing this as I used to know her. O3000 (talk) 14:22, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

murder-suicide

This diff, restores text describing an incident as murder-suicide. Objective3000 then removes this text (twice) with an edit summary saying “Not good sources. Only a trial judge can rule murder as it's a class of crimes. Good sources say the coroner ruled it a homicide, which is not a crime but a cause of death.” AFAIK, People is a reliable source. There are other reliable sources also using “murder-suicide” as well. So that should put this issue of “not good sources” to bed. As far as “only a trial judge can rule murder” goes, that’s an opinion of an editor, and it’s pure hogwash. We use reliable sources at Wikipedia, not editor conjecture. I’m restoring the phrase.

The NYPost says “The former Playboy Playmate who killed herself and her 7-year-old son in a murder-suicide leap Friday was distraught because she couldn’t take the kid to Europe for the summer, a close friend told The Post.”. People says The deaths of a former Playboy playmate and her 7-year-old son have been ruled a murder-suicide after the woman jumped with the boy from a New York City hotel on Friday, officials say. Both use the phrase. Both are considered reliable sources.That man from Nantucket (talk) 06:14, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

And again. A medical examiner's finding is not an "allegation". General Ization ^Talk 17:03, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

The medical examiner did not call it a murder-suicide. He called it a homicide. O3000 (talk) 17:07, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

@That man from Nantucke:, I’ve asked for guidance at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Stephanie_Adams. O3000 (talk) 17:10, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Why does this feel like the goalposts are moving? AFAIK there is no legal definition of a murder-suicide, but even if there were one it doesn’t matter. In this case we have multiple secondary sources (e.g. People) reporting on what a primary source (“officials”) said. How did those officials make their statement? Was it an email? A phone call? A press conference? Carrier pigeon? It doesn’t matter. We trust People got this correct. They classified the deaths as a murder-suicide.

No moving of goalposts whatsoever. We now have six sources that say the medical examiner said homicide, not murder-suicide. And, People is a celebrity mag, not a news source. O3000 (talk) 10:59, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

I beg to differ. Your edit summaries Not good sources. Only a trial judge can rule murder as it's a class of crimes. Good sources say the coroner ruled it a homicide, which is not a crime but a cause of deat and Ruled a homicide, not a murder. A coroner cannot rule murderare an attempt to override reliable sources, based upon your opinion of NY law. I think it’s fair to say at this point that you are the only one holding this opinion and it flies in the face of how we use reliable sources. We have multiple sources labeling this a murder-suicide. People is definitely a reliable source, your opinion notwithstanding. So are the other two sources. And while the deaths have been labeled a homicide, murder is also a homicide. It doesn’t matter if a court has yet to weigh in on this because we have multiple reliable sources reporting that NYC officials have ruled this a murder-suicide.That man from Nantucket (talk) 16:08, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

You have provided ONE source that says the medical examiner called this murder-suicide. I provided SIX that he called it a homicide. And, I am not trying to rewrite NY law. I am repeating the legal definition of homicide in all 50 states as per Findlaw. [5] and the Presumption of innocence. O3000 (talk) 16:54, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Category: American murderers of children

I added this category and then reverted myself when I saw that it had been challenged before by Objective3000 based on the grounds that "no court has ruled it a murder". Based on this logic should we removed the categories for "American female murderers", "2018 murders in the United States", and "Murder–suicides in the United States"? Greyjoy ^talk 06:17, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Cats are often loosely defined. But, they should probably be removed. O3000 (talk) 11:49, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

They've been added back since the discussion above. I didn't add them back, but they should be there. The one and only standard English phrase for her action is "murder–suicide", a phrase that would not exist if the criminal law technicalities were the sole standard, since dead people are never found guilty of anything at all in most modern court systems. Saying that she's not a murderer allows not just criminal legal procedure, but even the lack of criminal legal procedure, to override uncontroverted facts to the point that it violates non-neutral point of view. Wikipedia has no legal obligation to allow a person to permanently veto recognition and labeling of their own evil by choosing to die before some official sticker can be placed on their heads. --Closeapple (talk) 19:31, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

Only the medical examiner didn't call it a murder-suicide. O3000 (talk) 20:24, 1 July 2020 (UTC)