Talk:Murder of Lesley Molseed

Article's title

Most of the Wikipedia articles I've seen about murders are titled Murder of (name of victim). Why is this article named Lesley Molseed murder, instead of Murder of Lesley Molseed?; that is the title many people looking for this article would type into the search box. The article need to either be renamed as I've suggested, or a redirect from it created. Werdnawerdna (talk) 22:49, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Wrongful conviction of Kiszko

I was a member of the West Yorkshire Police Authority (WYPA) 1985-2003, Labour Group Whip & Secretary 1985-1996 and WYPA Chair 1997-2002. I remember the Stefan Kiszko case very well and the Authority's Complaints Committee (its then title) spent many meetings examining the case. All Police Authority members (of all political parties and none) were appalled at this miscarriage of justice and the Authority demanded of the then Home Secretary that there be a full public inquiry into what had gone wrong (this was rejected).

Months before Stefan was released, Paul Whitehouse, then West Yorkshire Deputy Chief Constable (and later to become Chief Constable of Sussex) told me, in exasperation, that Kiszko was completely innocent but that the Home Office would not authorise his release (I think it would have involved loss of face on their part). Eventually, of course, he was released. Neither Stefan nor his mother - they were both absolutely devoted to each other - lived for long afterwards. An absolute, terrible tragedy and a disgrace to the English judicial system.

I have always been opposed to capital punishment, but at an earlier time in British history - or even now in so-called civilised countries like the USA, Kiszko would have been executed. The tragic case of Stefan Kiszko should make everyone responsible for his wrongful conviction hang their heads in shame.

Councillor Neil Taggart Member, Leeds City Council since 1980 Member, West Yorkshire Police Authority 1985-2003

neil.taggartleeds.gov.uk

XYY syndrome ?

In 340 pages, Rose, Jonathan; Panter, Steve; Wilkinson, Trevor (1997). Innocents : How Justice Failed Stefan Kiszko and Lesley Molseed. London: Fourth Estate. ISBN 1-85702-402-8, never says Stephan Kiszko was diagnosed with XYY syndrome or any other chromosome abnormality. The book says Kiszko was diagnosed with and treated for male hypogonadism:

• In 1970, 18-year-old Stefan Kiszko's 56-year-old father Ivan collapsed in the street with a heart attack and died while Stefan and his father were walking home after a visit to Stefan's aunt's house. Stefan's father "was a giant of a man of massive build with a huge head and shovel-sized hands."
• On August 4, 1975, 23-year-old Stefan Kiszko visited his GP complaining of tiredness, was found to have signs of anemia, but refused hospitalization (apparently due to his fear of having his underdeveloped genitals seen by nurses).
• On August 5, 1975, Kiszko was seen at home by another physician who found him to be severely anemic and immediately admitted him to Birch Hill Hospital in Rochdale, where he was noted to be hypogonadal with no palpable testicles in his scrotum and an immature penis. Treatment of his anemia was unsuccessful.
• On August 18, 1975, Kiszko was transferred to Manchester Royal Infirmary where his anemia was attributed to lack of folic acid and an excessive intake of cider which resolved following treatment with supplemental folic acid. An endocrinologist diagnosed Kiszko with long-standing hypogonadism and testosterone deficiency and instituted treatment with intramuscular testosterone injections every three weeks.
• On September 15, 1975, Kiszko was discharged from Manchester Royal Infirmary after 4 weeks there and after 6 weeks in total in hospital. His hemoglobin level had increased to 75% of normal. The previously overweight 6'2" Kiszko was down to 198 pounds, having lost around 50 pounds.
• On October 3, 1975, Kiszko received his first outpatient intramuscular injection of Primoteston (testosterone enanthate) 125 mg.
• On October 5, 1975, 11-year-old Lesley Molseed went missing.
• On October 8, 1975, Lesley Molseed's body, with 12 stab wounds, was discovered.

47,XXY (Klinefelter syndrome) is the most common congenital cause of primary male hypogonadism.
47,XYY is not associated with hypogonadism.

69.208.187.141 19:31, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Adding a hyperlink for Kiszko

I think it's in order (and I've just done it), because he is likely to remain a prominent case of a miscarriage of justice.

BTW, I was very glad to read Mr. Taggart's contribution on this page.

And I am sorry beyond words for the poor man and his mother. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.142.175.124 (talk) 00:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Can there be a separate article for Stefan Kiszko, even if it has to be a stub? It is too sad to think that in death, as well as for much of his life, he should only exist as an adjunct or footnote to the Lesley Molseed murder case? His tragedy is every bit as important in its own right as hers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.254.192.205 (talk) 14:32, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I feel so desparately sad for Stefan Kiszko & his family. Everyone involved in his wrongful imprisonment should be ashamed for their part. From police to David Waddington. The British Government for witholding any monies due. I hope they never have to experience what he & his family had to endure. Thanks to this so called 'justice' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.6.12.65 (talk) 20:55, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

While many might agree that there should be a separate article for Kiszko, this should not be because without it he might remain an "adjunct or footnote" to the story of this murder. His life would very probably have been entirely non-notable without this tragic saga. But one may easily forget that the original verdict was also a gross miscarroage of justice for the family of the victim. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:52, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Whatever happened to the three lying bitches?

The article says that Kiszko was convicted on the testimony given by three teenage girls that he'd exposed himself to them.

Then 16 years later they said that they had done it for a "laugh" (and none of there statements were true - sic Salem Witch Trials). Yet where are they now? Has anyone got any sources on who these horrible creatures are? This case will remain a long dark stain on the history of Rochdale. God bless Stefan and his mother, may they both find the peace and happiness they deserve.

This case has to be one of the foulest examples of how the quest for blind justice works. The evidence did not fit the man, so the police and the legal system fitted the man to the evidence with legal sophistry, selective use of evidence and misdirections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.237.56 (talk) 13:06, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

One assumes that you meant "the blind quest for justice (or possibly vengeance)" and not "the quest for blind Justice" i.e. impartiality. But this talk page is not a forum and the whereabouts or cirumstances of the three false witnesses is unlikely to change the content of this article. Nevertheless many might feel that the comparison with an actual witch hunt is not necessarily misplaced. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:42, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Images

Are there no copyright-free images of the victim, or of Stefan Kiszko, or even of Ronald Castree? 23:54, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Kallmann syndrome ??

It is possible that the medical condition was actually Kallmann syndrome

This would explain the hypogonadism, lack of sexual development and inability to produce semen. It is not unknown for men with un-diagnosed Kallmann syndrome to be socially very shy. Men with Kallmann syndrome have virtually no pubertal development at all, even less so than men with Klinefelter syndrome.

I remember seeing the TV programmes when I was younger and the medical side intrigued me as I have Kallmann syndrome myself. I am not sure if it is mentioned anywhere whether Mr Kiszko had a sense of smell or not, which is a defining feature of Kallmann syndrome. The condition can occur with a normal sense of smell when it is known as congenital hypogonadotropic hypogonadism.

Kallmann syndrome is far less common than Klinefelter syndrome.

Neilsmith38 (talk) 23:37, 22 February 2016 (UTC)