Talk:Steak frites

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved Mike Cline (talk) 15:46, 23 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Steak frites → Steak-frites – In French, the hyphen is needed to denote that the "et" (and) is missing. See Moules-frites Brigade Piron (talk) 17:52, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support: The current title is Franglish that perverts both the French and English versions, and really isn't a word in either language. Either move it to the French title, or move it to the English word for the concept, Steak fries (currently a redirect to French fries) (FYI, if anyone cares, I was the guy who created steak-frites to redirect to steak frites) p b p 18:00, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment "steak fries" are steak-cut fries, not "steak & fries" -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 06:56, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Support – not Steak fries, which in English often just means the potatos. Dicklyon (talk) 23:49, 13 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose WP:UE, the anglicized form is "steak frites", per the menus of restaurants [1] from English speaking places, so the English form is "steak frites". This dish is frequently served in restaurants in English speaking localities, so does have an English name. [2][3][4]; Even in French, the use of the hyphen is not always used [5][6] -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 06:54, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Given that the title of this is being left in its original language, does it not seem reasonable to render it as it was originally? --Brigade Piron (talk) 08:11, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - This is the English Wikipedia, so we use English WP:UE. Further, of the references in the article currently, it says "steak frites" without the hyphen. One of those refs is Anthony Bourdain, a famous chef, who has worked in France, so knows how to spell the thing. As the thing in French is also spelled "steak frites" without the hyphen, the move to hyphenated form is even more unsupported, since the usage in French is mixed. As there are multitudes of examples of the naming of this dish in various English language cookbooks and restaurant menus, and food reviews, we can ascertain what the spelling is in English, from sources in the field, which is mostly "steak frites" without a hyphen, so we have a WP:UCN common name as well. The Quebec government (a government that requires French for official documents) from their tourism bureau, in both English and French calls it "steak frites" without a hyphen, so officially it is also unhyphenated. -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 10:37, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak oppose. The French article fr:Steak frites seems to also spell the name without a hyphen. JIP | Talk 07:06, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- That is an error on their part. See here 1 and 2 ---Brigade Piron (talk) 08:11, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, it's not an error on their part [7][8][9][10] -- it's spelled that way in French. -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 08:13, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I see your point, but with respect, all your sources are Canadian French, which as I'm sure you understand, differs from French/Belgian French. Since this dish is not Canadian, I do not see that this is particularly relevant. Moules-frites is which comes from the same region is, of course, hyphenated. The hyphen reflects a grammatical need to replace the "et" which is absent, as well as to distinguish it from an adjectival phrase ("steaky chips") and reflects the pronunciation. ---Brigade Piron (talk) 16:14, 16 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is still English Wikipedia, and usage in French is still mixed. This isn't the French Wikipedia. Even if this were the French Wikipedia, this isn't the European Commission naming control bureau that sets what can and can't be called Gouda/Porto/Champagne/etc. Even then, different French-language governments have split on the usage of the hyphen. Also WP:OFFICIALNAME it doesn't matter what it is spelled as officially in Belgian French, since we follow the common form WP:UCN, and English sources do not generally hyphenate, and we have authoratative sources that don't hyphenate in English, like Anthony Bourdain, and we have enough usage in English to establish its form in English WP:UE. -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 05:48, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also, French French: [11][12][13][14] -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 14:03, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Swiss French: [15][16][17][18] -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 14:11, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Belgian French: [19][20] -- 70.24.250.26 (talk) 14:11, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This is the English Wikipedia, not the French Wikipedia. Hill Crest's WikiLaser! (BOOM!) 22:11, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't mind me saying, that's pretty arrogant. This is a proper noun for a Franco-Belgian dish, not just "steak and chips". Would you suggest renaming all wiki articles with French titles? There're quite a few of them. "Steak frites" is not better English than "Steak-frites" either. ---Brigade Piron (talk) 22:31, 14 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose English wikipedia, English grammar, English spelling rules, English usage. What other language speakers do in their own language is their own affair, and does not dictate what English should or should not do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aunitedfront (talk • contribs) 01:19, 19 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. It's usually "steak frites" in restaurants except for explicitly French restaurants, where it's a 50/50 shot which form they'll use and that could arguably be the French term anyway. Steak Frites might be horrible Franglish, but that's just how English rolls, devouring other language's terms and making it its own. SnowFire (talk) 03:39, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Not the canonical usage. Moreover the article needs expansion. While it may originate from French-speaking Europe it is popular around the world under that name. ^Bongo_matic 03:55, 20 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.