Talk:Steady, As She Goes

Two Videos

Why are there two videos for this song? PrettyMuchBryce 00:54, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Naming conventions

According to the band's official website, the name is "Steady, As She Goes." (Notice the capital "A" in "As.") According to the back cover of the album, the name is "Steady, As She Goes." (Notice the capital "A" in "As.") This is not a case where the titles are in all caps or all lowercase letters, where there is no clear "correct" way to write it. This is not a case where the title appears capitalized differently in different places. I've read Wikipedia's rules on naming conventions, and there is no reason not to show it as the band intended, as "Steady, As She Goes." --Muéro 22:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

On Wikipedia prepositions in song titles shouldn't be capitalised. See Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Album_titles_and_band_names, which is official policy. Extraordinary Machine 22:32, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

After researching this further, I have found that there is a general consensus that the naming conventions should only be used when there is no set indication as to the capitalization. This particular naming convention was created because a majority of album covers either have all caps or all lowercase. Cases in which it is obvious care has been taken in the capitilization of the text are considered "unique" cases, and therefore the naming conventions do not apply. In this case, it is obvious that care has been taken. For example, on the album "Broken Boy Soldiers" has "Steady, As She Goes" as well as "Call It a Day." Since this is an intentional use of capitilization, it should be kept in the Wikipedia article. If you still do not agree, please read the discussion page for Wikipedia:Naming_conventions. --Muéro 23:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've read nothing to indicate that a consensus supporting what you describe has been established; the closest thing I found was a discussion near the top of Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions that never arrived at a consensus (see also Talk:I'm with You for a discussion that ran in parallel with that one, where again no consensus was reached).
The naming conventions make no exceptions for titles where there is "set indication as to the capitalization", so they definitely do apply here.
I'm sure The Raconteurs' record label's manual of style suggests capitals for prepositions, in which case that's correct for them; ours doesn't, which is thus correct for us. In most cases we shouldn't format song and album titles according to "[supposed] intentional use of capitilization"; it's about establishing consistency between articles, which helps make us look professional and avoid conflict. Extraordinary Machine 00:08, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'm all for avoiding conflict, which is why the "A" in "As" should remain capitalized. I don't know if you've seen the back cover art for Broken Boy Soldiers, the full-length album on which this song/single was releaed, but it is different than most. The band hired a concept director, designer, hand model, photographer, and even an additional artist just to do the calligraphy for the back cover. There is no font used; the writing is all done by hand by a professional. I can't imagine they would go through all that effort to make the back cover unique and then ask a record label to tell them how to capitalize the song titles. But, just in case that is what happened, the record label in this case was Third Man Records, which is owned and operated by Raconteurs band member Jack White. I hope Wikipedia isn't as stubborn as other publications, like how PC World magazine insists on calling the iPod "IPod," just because their manual of style requires all product names to start with a capital letter (I cancelled my subscription just for that). --Muéro 06:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's not about being "stubborn", it's about abiding by a set house style, which is what almost all publications (either on the internet or off it) have, as well as record labels (regardless of whether they are owned by one of the band members). In most cases concerning typography this has nothing to do with what's on the album track listing. If you think Wikipedia should give up the idea of establishing consistency in typography across articles, then go ahead and make your case at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions, though I doubt you'll get far.
The notion that the creators of the back cover, for one reason or another, decided that it was essential for "as" to be capitalised is suppositional at best. Extraordinary Machine 14:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was no move. -- tariqabjotu (joturner) 03:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

Steady, As She Goes → Steady, as She Goes … Rationale: The official style policy at Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Album_titles_and_band_names states that ~~prepositions~~ conjunctions in song and album titles should not be capitalised. I did move this to the correct title more than once, but I've been reverted. Extraordinary Machine 00:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Support per policy, the wrong capitalization has no meaning. --Dhartung | Talk 11:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as the policy is only where no "official" capitalisation is apparent (see above) -- Ratarsed 12:12, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Album_titles_and_band_names policy states articles, prepositions and conjunctions should be lower case "unless [the title] is unique", which refers to articles such as Songs in A Minor. It makes no mention of "official" capitalisation at all. Extraordinary Machine 14:06, 7 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose for the same reasons as stated by Ratarsed. The band clearly intends for the title to be "Steady, As She Goes" and there's no reason not to do it that way. An arbitrary ruling that contradicts the band is stupid. Tytrain 13:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. I can see both sides, but in the end I'd have to agree with Muéro that the interpretation should be that "cases in which it is obvious care has been taken in the capitilization of the text are considered 'unique.'" — BryanD 17:52, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Add any additional comments

It's a conjunction, not a preposition. Eugène van der Pijll 11:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My mistake. Still, conjunctions shouldn't be capitalised either. Extraordinary Machine 13:37, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Fair use rationale for Image:SteadyAsSheGoes StoreBoughtBones.jpg

Image:SteadyAsSheGoes StoreBoughtBones.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 04:40, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]