Talk:Stanisław Kazimierczyk

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Move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Jafeluv (talk) 11:50, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stanisław Kazimierczyk → Stanislaw Kazimiercyzk — Fixing name. See this article for correct name. signing so this move requested is listed at the time it was started properly. Dpmuk (talk) 12:43, 18 December 2010 (UTC) Newport Backbay (talk) 17:17, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - either form would be a correct rendering of the name in English, but Wikipedia's style (which better serves its encyclopedic purpose) is to include diacritics in cases like this.--Kotniski (talk) 11:44, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It appears that this is about the order of the final three letters, not diacritics. The source does show the proposed spelling, but I suspect it's a typo. Station1 (talk) 21:27, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, sorry, didn't notice that. In that case, oppose even more strongly', that's obviously a misprint. Plenty of other sources (in Polish) show the correct spelling.--Kotniski (talk) 09:40, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Yes to move/merger

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. Vegaswikian (talk) 01:51, 8 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Stanisław Kazimierczyk → Stanislaus of Kazimierz – After reading several sources on this person in two different languages, I finally realized that what appears to be a surname is actually an adjectival form of his place of origin, equivalent to calling someone "John French" where it would correctly be "John of France". In this person's case, the proper equivalent in English would be "Stanislaus of Kazimierz" (note that this location has its own entry in Wiki). Due to not realizing the rules for such an action, it seems that I messed up in trying to correct this. It seems unfair to those of us not familiar with Polish to expect us to understand this without doing the research I did. I therefore propose/request that the article be moved/merged under the title I created but now cannot use. Daniel the Monk (talk) 13:36, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose, as unlike the proposed name, the current name is in actual use. It is quite common to see people named after their place of origin, especially in the Middle Ages, and we should not go around supposedly correcting that. It would be good, though, if the meaning of the man's name were added to the article. Ucucha (talk) 20:19, 26 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Should one continue to use a term that is linguistically incorrect because everybody else is? My point is precisely that the term is an adjectival place of origin, yet an English-speaker like myself would never have known without research. Shouldn't a clear English version be Wiki's goal in its English version? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel the Monk (talk • contribs) 00:37, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. As Ucucha says, this kind of identification by place of origin was very common, and particularly so for monks and the like, such as Jacob Faber Stapulensis, Jacques Lefèvre d'Étaples, who is not going to be moved to Jack Smith of Staples, because that is not the name he is known by. For the little it is worth, on Google books, "Stanislaus of Kazimierz" saint 0 hits, "Stanisław Kazimierczyk" saint, 23 hits. On WorldCat, "Stanislaus of Kazimierz", 0 results; "Stanisław Kazimierczyk", 15 results. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 02:01, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. We go with what the English lang sources use, not what we happen to think they should use or invent names ourselves. Gbooks hits for "Stanislaw Kazimierczyk" [1] 100+ (74 if we add the word "Poland" to screen out non-Eng sources [2]). "Stanislaus of Kazimierz" [3] none.Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:23, 27 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am confused by these arguments. I would expect his given name to be rendered in its English version of Stanislaus for the English version of this site. How many English-speakers can even type the Polish version? I would point out that his name has come into the orbit of the English-speaking world only since his canonization in 2010. So there has not been time to develop what will likely be the ultimate form used in English texts in the days ahead.

A parallel to this issue can be seen in the online listings of his friend and fellow saint, John of Kanty. Googling that name shows the majority of hits for him under this form. The main divergence from this is Wikipedia, which lists him under "John Cantius". This form relys on a publication which was printed a century ago. Additionally, it would be ironic if St. Stanislaus' name were kept in its Polish form, while that of his patron saint is rendered precisely in the format I am proposing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel the Monk (talk • contribs) 13:48, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

English version of Stanislaus - "Stanislaus" is not really English, it's Latin. At least it's not any more English than Stanisław. Using "Stanislaus" in this particular case would be inventing conventions, i.e. original research. Worse, it would be actually contravening existing English language convention.

So there has not been time to develop what will likely be the ultimate form used in English texts in the days ahead. - this is an empirical matter; we check English language sources. And these use the present title.

I have no opinion on John of Kanty/John Cantius, I'd have to look into it. But it's irrelevant to the discussion here.

The other Saint should probably be moved to "Stanisław" as well.Volunteer Marek (talk) 21:22, 29 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Are you serious in saying that Stanislaus is equal to (Polish version of it which I cannot type, since that letter is not on my keyboard) as regards the English language??? I would point out that this is an article about a Roman Catholic saint, and the custom for saints is to translate their given name into English. Every Polish church in this country dedicated to a saint with that name uses Stanislaus for this reason. You can look it up.Daniel the Monk (talk) 12:53, 30 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.