Talk:St Christopher Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine
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Arkansas
[edit]Arkansas rescinded their list. Will update the article accordingly. reference - http://www.armedicalboard.org/professionals/pdf/ASMB_Disapproved_Schools.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Packingsupplies (talk • contribs) 19:13, 27 December 2010 (UTC)
Passage of time
[edit]In light of the passage of time, and of the fact that the article states that the Luton campus has been closed, I propose to alter the opening sentence of the article from "is" to "was". -- Simon Cursitor (talk) 10:08, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2019
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I would like "(not accredited)" to be removed from section: Type Private medical training establishment (not accredited). St. Christopher students are not allowed to practice in 8 states within the United States as well as 1 country in the EU. Conversely, they are allowed to practice to in 42 states in the US and 43 countries in the EU. They are also allowed to practice anywhere else in the world based on World Federation for Medical Education (WFME) guidelines. The school has fallen into disrepute, but they are far from the blanket statement, "not accredited." 68.33.56.89 (talk) 11:30, 10 October 2019 (UTC)
Please see sponsor notes1under World Directory of Medical Schools,which is maintained by the Foundation for Advancement of International Medical Education and Research(FAIMER)2, and World Federation for Medical Education(WFME)3.
The information below has been provided by the World Directory’s sponsoring organizations. Canada
Unless indicated otherwise, Medical degrees obtained from this medical school are acceptable to the provincial/territorial medical regulatory authorities in Canada, and therefore acceptable to all medical organizations in Canada. For more information about the acceptable medical schools as defined in the Model Standards for Medical Registration in Canada click here.
À moins d’avis contraire, les diplômes de médecine de cette faculté de médecine sont acceptables aux ordres des médecins dans les provinces et territoires du Canada, et par conséquent acceptables à toute autre organisation au Canada qui œuvre dans le domaine médical. Pour plus d'information au sujet des facultés de médecine acceptables, telles que définies dans les normes modèles pour l'inscription médicale au Canada, cliquez ici.
Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG), United States of America
Students and graduates of this medical school are eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification and for examination, provided that:
For medical school students officially enrolled in this school, the graduation years are listed below as “current”.
For graduates of this medical school, their graduation year is included in the graduation years listed below.
Graduation Years:
2000 - Current
All other eligibility requirements are met. Refer to the ECFMG Information Booklet for detailed information.
SunbeamFlower (talk) 09:57, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.. Please note that this is a procedural decline only, with no prejudice to the aforementioned edit as requested (if there's reliable sources provided to support the edit). OhKayeSierra (talk) 00:36, 13 October 2019 (UTC)
Partly done: I added and updated the infobox to {{Infobox university}}. However, it appears this university has been operating in Dakar, Senegal, since 2014 and therefore this article needs to be updated. comrade waddie96 ★ (talk) 18:41, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
- In addition to the change required for location (now only Dakar, Senegal and not Luton, UK), it is still operational. Please see school details heading under World Directory of Medical Schools. The active years needs correction.SunbeamFlower (talk) 14:09, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
References
"International Medical Education Directory" changed to "World Directory of Medical Schools"
[edit]I would like all mentions and references to the "International Medical Education Directory" to be changed to the "World Directory of Medical Schools." The World Directory of Medical Schools is currently the definitive list of medical schools in the world.4
As previously announced, it is expected that FAIMER’s International Medical Education Directory (IMED) and IMED Subscription Service will be discontinued by mid-2015. The World Federation for Medical Education(WFME) also expects to discontinue its Avicenna Directory by mid-2015. At that time, the World Directory of Medical Schools will become the definitive list of medical schools in the world. The World Directory of Medical Schools was launched in April 2014 by FAIMER and WFME. Developed in collaboration with the World Health Organization and the University of Copenhagen, the World Directory is a result of a March 2012 agreement to merge IMED and WFME’s Avicenna Directory to produce a single comprehensive resource on undergraduate medical education worldwide.
SunbeamFlower (talk) 16:13, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
References
ECFMG Certification & Canadian Certification
[edit]In order to have a balanced view of both positives and negatives of this school, I would like to have mention of qualification for ECFMG Certification, as cited by World Directory of Medical Schools to be mentioned under the heading United States stating, "Students and graduates of this medical school are eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification of for examination, provided that their graduation year is after 2000." I would also like a heading be created for Canada, under which is stated, "Unless indicated otherwise, Medical degrees obtained from this medical school are acceptable to the provincial/territorial medical regulatory authorities in Canada, and therefore acceptable to all medical organizations in Canada." Both of these statements are taken directly from the Sponsor Notes section of the school listing.1 SunbeamFlower (talk) 22:23, 4 January 2020 (UTC)
- SunbeamFlower, "eligible to apply for" is weasel wording. Your proposed change is a novel synthesis. Guy (help!) 08:18, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- Guy, thank you for pointing me to the right place to discuss this. "Eligible to apply for" is the language stated in WDoMS. If you look at the entry for University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine in the World Directory of Medicine(linked here), under the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) sponsor notes for the U.S. it states, "Students and graduates of this medical school are eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification and for examination..." I can't change the original wording of the source, it's the language typically used in the WDoMS. The sponsor notes for Canada are worded similarly as well. I think I understand what you suggest by novel synthesis. Applying for ECMFG Certification does not guarantee U.S. medical licensure; that is contingent on passing the United States Medical Licensing Exams. Then you have to be accepted into a training residency and pass through the state licensure board for your desired location in the country. That however, is the same for any medical school graduate who wants to be licensed in the U.S. no matter if their school is foreign or native. ATharanee (talk) 15:04, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- ATharanee, yes, it's standard language. And including it has the (probably intentional) effect of implying legitimacy. But all the reliable independent secondary sources imply the opposite.
- Incidentally, what's your interest here? Are you a student there? Guy (help!) 15:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- Guy, I am a former graduate. I was just reading conflict of interest that PaleoNeonate linked on my talk page. I just saw how to tag myself as a connected contributor. The school has had some rough times, but things have changed. So I thought to open dialog and update the page with the current situation. I'll agree to whatever the final decision of established editors like yourself are. However, I thought it heavily biased that only negative information be published when in fact the school is considered acceptable by the ECFMG currently. The WDoMS is changing the listing process of schools over the next couple years, so St. Christopher may once again lose accreditation in all honesty. But as it currently stands, St. Christopher graduates are allowed to sit for liscencing exams, enter into training residencies, and practice in the U.S. and Canada. I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds, if so please let me know and I'll steer clear of any further edits concerning St. Christopher.
{{connected contributor}}ATharanee (talk) 15:46, 18 June 2020 (UTC)- ATharanee, well, I feel a bit bad for you, because there's no doubt this school has a terrible reputation around the world. I hope your later training is in good hospitals and that sets you up for a decent career. Guy (help!) 18:28, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- JzG, I truly appreciate the empathy and concern. It's heartfelt and makes me grateful to have it. I received fairly decent training in green book U.S. hospitals through St. Christopher before I graduated. Although St. Christopher gave me the ability to practice as a physician in the U.S., what it stole from me was my love of the practice of medicine. The stress of the Luton campus shutting down and moving pre-clinicals solely to Senegal, the change of ownership, the period when it's accreditation with the WHO was in jeopardy was intense on me. That coupled with doing clinical rotations (a few months apiece) in a random city as far spread as Chicago, to Baltimore, to New York City, to Atlanta. It gave me a wide breadth of experience across medicine all over the U.S., but picking up and moving without assistance every few months to a new city and a new hospital would not be something I would wish on any medical student in their final years. At one point because of the change in school ownership, they had lost my clinical rotation evaluations. I packed my wife and one year old son into my tiny car and drove from Boston to Atlanta just so I could hunt down my attending physicians so they could redo the paperwork in order to get my diploma. I filed all the necessary paperwork and credentialing with the ECFMG and after approval, I walked away from medical practice. It had left me bitter and distressed. Since then I have pursued scientific research and recently finished my PhD in neuroscience at a US state government run university. I apologize profusely if my edits were controversial, but I tried to do it through the talk section first. I would have been happier if someone else had made the changes based on my suggestions, as I'm quite amateurish at Wikipedia editing. My intention was not to whitewash the negative history of this school (I left all the negative stuff up) but to add a holistic view by adding some of the positive, although limited, aspects of having a degree from St. Christopher. I am by no means a fan of this school, more closely bordering on hatred. After recently reading the Wikipedia conflict of interest I now realize I am too biased to make any edits on this article. If the recent discussion on Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents results in me being banned, I will not argue it because it would be the right thing to do. I appreciate Wikipedia as a resource for my children, and my children's children. I do not want it vandalized by individuals moving away from the communal consensus.
{{connected contributor}}ATharanee (talk) 20:07, 18 June 2020 (UTC)- ATharanee, ouch, that sounds brutal. Incidentally, one reason the original incident here was so bad is that my sister had lived only a couple of miles away from the Luton site, in Stopsley. Guy (help!) 21:53, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- JzG, I truly appreciate the empathy and concern. It's heartfelt and makes me grateful to have it. I received fairly decent training in green book U.S. hospitals through St. Christopher before I graduated. Although St. Christopher gave me the ability to practice as a physician in the U.S., what it stole from me was my love of the practice of medicine. The stress of the Luton campus shutting down and moving pre-clinicals solely to Senegal, the change of ownership, the period when it's accreditation with the WHO was in jeopardy was intense on me. That coupled with doing clinical rotations (a few months apiece) in a random city as far spread as Chicago, to Baltimore, to New York City, to Atlanta. It gave me a wide breadth of experience across medicine all over the U.S., but picking up and moving without assistance every few months to a new city and a new hospital would not be something I would wish on any medical student in their final years. At one point because of the change in school ownership, they had lost my clinical rotation evaluations. I packed my wife and one year old son into my tiny car and drove from Boston to Atlanta just so I could hunt down my attending physicians so they could redo the paperwork in order to get my diploma. I filed all the necessary paperwork and credentialing with the ECFMG and after approval, I walked away from medical practice. It had left me bitter and distressed. Since then I have pursued scientific research and recently finished my PhD in neuroscience at a US state government run university. I apologize profusely if my edits were controversial, but I tried to do it through the talk section first. I would have been happier if someone else had made the changes based on my suggestions, as I'm quite amateurish at Wikipedia editing. My intention was not to whitewash the negative history of this school (I left all the negative stuff up) but to add a holistic view by adding some of the positive, although limited, aspects of having a degree from St. Christopher. I am by no means a fan of this school, more closely bordering on hatred. After recently reading the Wikipedia conflict of interest I now realize I am too biased to make any edits on this article. If the recent discussion on Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents results in me being banned, I will not argue it because it would be the right thing to do. I appreciate Wikipedia as a resource for my children, and my children's children. I do not want it vandalized by individuals moving away from the communal consensus.
- ATharanee, well, I feel a bit bad for you, because there's no doubt this school has a terrible reputation around the world. I hope your later training is in good hospitals and that sets you up for a decent career. Guy (help!) 18:28, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- Guy, I am a former graduate. I was just reading conflict of interest that PaleoNeonate linked on my talk page. I just saw how to tag myself as a connected contributor. The school has had some rough times, but things have changed. So I thought to open dialog and update the page with the current situation. I'll agree to whatever the final decision of established editors like yourself are. However, I thought it heavily biased that only negative information be published when in fact the school is considered acceptable by the ECFMG currently. The WDoMS is changing the listing process of schools over the next couple years, so St. Christopher may once again lose accreditation in all honesty. But as it currently stands, St. Christopher graduates are allowed to sit for liscencing exams, enter into training residencies, and practice in the U.S. and Canada. I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds, if so please let me know and I'll steer clear of any further edits concerning St. Christopher.
- Guy, thank you for pointing me to the right place to discuss this. "Eligible to apply for" is the language stated in WDoMS. If you look at the entry for University of Cambridge School of Clinical Medicine in the World Directory of Medicine(linked here), under the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) sponsor notes for the U.S. it states, "Students and graduates of this medical school are eligible to apply to ECFMG for ECFMG Certification and for examination..." I can't change the original wording of the source, it's the language typically used in the WDoMS. The sponsor notes for Canada are worded similarly as well. I think I understand what you suggest by novel synthesis. Applying for ECMFG Certification does not guarantee U.S. medical licensure; that is contingent on passing the United States Medical Licensing Exams. Then you have to be accepted into a training residency and pass through the state licensure board for your desired location in the country. That however, is the same for any medical school graduate who wants to be licensed in the U.S. no matter if their school is foreign or native. ATharanee (talk) 15:04, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
- As a quick note, the "Sponsor Note" in the World Directory of Medical Schools website is identical when I search for another school I know. This seems to be the default text and is probably not reliable. -- Luk talk 17:42, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 10 May 2022
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California is linked twice: once in a bullet talking about California's standards, and a second time in the next bullet. There's no need for the second to be linked; please delink it. 49.198.51.54 (talk) 00:41, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
Done 💜 melecie talk - 01:08, 10 May 2022 (UTC)
