Talk:Sremska Mitrovica Prison/Archive 1

Archive 1

Removed material

This article is unreferenced by and large, and I removed large chunks of material on abuse that doesn't seem supported by any sources. The UN Commission of Experts material [1] does report some mistreatment, but nothing of the horror that this article contained. May I kindly remind of Wikipedia policies of WP:V, WP:RS and WP:NPOV. Until the contentious statements are cited from reliable sources, I preserve the right to remove them for the article. Duja► 13:08, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Litterally the ENTIRE article comes from that source, only sorted to a cronological order to make for more reasonable reading. List what you didn't find, and I'll kindly point you to where it is in the source. -The Spanish Inquisitor 10:54, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Just to prove, I've just found the first three sentences you removed in the source, which you can find by searching for them:

"Prisoners who complained to the ICRC over their treatment were later beaten severely."

- find near *5841

"Upon arrival, the prisoners were forced to undress and strip-searched..."

- find near *5698

"Wounded and sick were held among the general population"

- find near *5684

Perhaps the length of the source confused you. There is quite a lot to read... -The Spanish Inquisitor 11:03, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks, but several problems remain, for example:

1. Source: The witness was ordered by a JNA soldier to strip to the nude. After that the soldier threatened to castrate him

   Article: Some prisoners were castrated.

   This seems to be a mistake. The sentance in question refers to "Ruma" camp, not SM. Nothing on castration in SM, so I'm deleting this. -The Spanish Inquisitor 12:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

2. Source: The witness claims that he was never forced to perform sex acts, but that the Croatian soldier and the American were forced to engage in fellatio

   Article: The American prisoner was beaten more severely then most others and was forced to engage in fellatio with another prisoner.

   Also in the soruce: The American was beaten more severely than the other prisoners. The Spanish Inquisitor 12:46, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

3. Source: Allegedly, in the first couple of days 17 people were killed. Three were shot and the others were beaten to death.

   Article: At least 18 prisoners were tortured to death.

   Also in the source: At least 18 prisoners were tortured to death according to one source. (unrelated to those killed, that's a seperate event as far as I understand) The Spanish Inquisitor 12:46, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The largest problem is that the article fails to distinguish from witness reports and the Expert commission findings... although the commission's work was mostly to compile the witness reports.
Frankly, I had no illusion that the Mitrovica prison was a paradise, but if just a quarter of those witness stories were true, it would still be horryfying. Duja► 12:21, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

If you wish to directly quote the source for those statements, feel free to change the sentances in question. But deleting half of the article is definately not the way to go. -The Spanish Inquisitor 12:40, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

In the source, I noticed only the material around 5380-5390 related with Mitrovica, and later it continued with Bor. I didn't assume that the substantial chunk of material is below. Duja► 13:04, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

No, no, its way down. Fruska Gora is at 5621, and KPD 5622-6043. You've must have found Mitrovica only referenced in relation to something else. It's much nearer to the end. The Spanish Inquisitor 13:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)