Talk:Spoken word/Archives/2015

External links to artists with no Wikipedia entries

This page is becoming less of a page that lists various performance poets, than an "advertising page" for them. I disagree with the idea of adding links adjacent to poets who have no Wikipedia entry for themselves -- it just strikes me as lazy.

I suggest that the page for a performance poet is created, and that a bio and link to their site be established there, otherwise this article will continue to be less and less encyclopedic in nature. Am open for debate, but my inclination is either to delete those links, or remove the poet references entirely for lack of notability. Captmondo 18:17, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm willing to go a step further and delete all redlinked poets, regardless of whether they once posted external links. That would help prune the list somewhat. If this is too strong a step, please say so.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back 17:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

As they say around here, "be bold". Captmondo

I agree with the UK contibutor but would like to clarify the terminology of spoken word. Performance poetry is a separate genre and spoken word encompasses any type of recording or video/film where a person talks, like Spalding Gray with his monlogues. Theater with one person, like monologues, fit under spoken word. As a commercial category in record stores or on radio station, the term Spoken Word broadens. It includes anything spoken, such as reading fairy tales aloud, etc. It is more descriptive and an umbrella term more than a single aesthetic genre.Nxguggenheim (talk) 16:17, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, performance poetry meets specific aesthetic criteria and is the contemporary version of the ancient oral tradition. It can be categorized under spoken word on radio stations or in record stores, but it is not merely spoken word. I hope this helps to clarify. These definitions are new and need development. Instead of letting editors who are not familiar with the importance of these creative forms, writers, and terminology delete entries, let wikians develop the definitions and keep improving them. Since they are new, it is a good idea to hear from practitioners and even experts/scholars about it. Other categories such as slam poetry, def poetry, etc., also need listings and development. The general public sort of know what these things are, but an encyclopedia also defines and articulates new phenomena in successive and updated issues. Presenting up to date info is really the strength of Wikipedia, since it is in continuous update with the latest info. Isn't it?comment added by Nxguggenheim (talk

putting spoken word list into performance poet list, which is only a fragment of what spoken word is about--not just poetry, for example, would really be a mistake. It would totally confuse things and the definitions of each thing. Spoken word is a big classification that covers much much more than poetry. Hope more gets developed under Spoken Word, and some of those lists of things can be made more accurate under Spoken Word for sure. But it needs much much more development by editors I think. We need to give poeple time to add stuff to articles instead of hatchet jobs and joining things togehter incorrectly.arthur poe 16:13, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Not quite what I expected!

Here in the UK, "spoken word" is generally used for audio books and the like, not performance poetry. Compare the Google.com and Google.co.uk results for the phrase and you'll see my point. Is there an article about this subject - in general, as opposed to about audio books in particular? Loganberry (Talk) 12:43, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Support. The meaning of the term in Ireland is the same as in Britain. The article here needs to broaden its scope in order to be comprehensive and to avoid American parochialism. --O'Dea (talk) 08:06, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

In the United States, "spoken word" is used to refer to either a.) an artistic performance in which speech is the primary medium, not limited to performance poetry, and does not neatly fit into a more comercial category like standup comedy or lecture; or b.) an audio recording of either such a performance or in which speech takes a central role, but not including the genres of audio books, or audio dramas, or instruction. More often than not, these are authors peforming their own work, so it is a particularly well-suited medium for poets and short story writers.IanThal 22:36, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, but that doesn't really answer my question. "Spoken word" in the UK does include audiobooks, and as such there needs to be either a section in this article, or a link to another article, where this can be discussed. Does it exist, and if so where? I'll willingly write a section/article stub if necessary, but don't want to do so if I'm duplicating something already in existence elsewhere. Loganberry (Talk) 00:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I think we should "de-list" (literally) the performance poetry section, and place a link to the Performance poetry article, which is clearly more suitable. In Canada too, Spoken word more generally refers to audio books and similar performances. I also think this is where the concentration for the article ought to be. Any objections? Captmondo 12:47, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I think the opposite. "Spoken Word" is the more common term for 'performance poetry' (never heard the latter before), at least in North America. A hatnote would be sufficient. Torc2 (talk) 21:49, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

I object to lumping all of these different things together. Dictionaries and encyclopedias should be accurate. The problem with Wikipedia is that many non-experts tamper with the accuracy of the content, and experts often don't contribute to Wikipedia entries. May I clarify the terminology of spoken word? Performance poetry is a separate genre and spoken word encompasses any type of recording or video/film where a person talks, like Spalding Gray with his monlogues. Theater with one person, like monologues, fit under spoken word. As a commercial category in record stores or on radio station, the term Spoken Word broadens. It includes anything spoken, such as reading fairy tales aloud, etc. It is more descriptive and an umbrella term more than a single aesthetic genre. Nxguggenheim (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

On the other hand, performance poetry meets specific aesthetic criteria and is the contemporary version of the ancient oral tradition. It can be categorized under spoken word on radio stations or in record stores, but it is not merely spoken word. I hope this helps to clarify. These definitions are new and need development. Instead of letting editors who are not familiar with the importance of these creative forms, writers, and terminology delete entries, let wikians develop the definitions and keep improving them. Since they are new, it is a good idea to hear from practitioners and even experts/scholars about it. Nxguggenheim (talk) 21:13, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Other categories such as slam poetry, def poetry, etc., also need listings and development. The general public sort of know what these things are, but an encyclopedia also defines and articulates new phenomena in successive and updated issues. Presenting up to date info is really the strength of Wikipedia, since it is in continuous update with the latest info. Isn't it? The strength of Wikipedia is that it is not in the hands of academics and experts, too. This enhances the obejctivity. Oh well. The Nov 2006 entry definition in this chat is on the right track. Why is that distinction definition part of the entry for spoken word? Can we cut and paste good text from these chats/discussions? Nxguggenheim (talk) 21:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Red wikilinks

On most articles I follow, red wikilinks are usually only allowed if sourced or really notable. Otherwise, red wikilinks without a Wikipedian article are removed. Seek consensus on removing red wikilinks. Ronbo76 21:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Listcruft tag

A list of notable performers for the artform is NOT listcruft. Most articles about a specific genre or artistic style include a list of the representative composers, artists, or practitioners. I don't know why anybody would expect this article to be different. The tag is unnecessary and should be removed. Torc2 (talk) 23:41, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Spoken Word goes back a lot further than 30 years

Rex Harrison, who couldn't sing a note, used patter song when acting on Broadway in My Fair Lady and went on to record albums of popular songs, in the same style, in the 60's. Older still are the songs written by Gilbert and Sullivan in the 19th century, specifically designed to be performed in this style, such as "I am the very model of a modern Major General" from Pirates of Penzance. Ultimately this all goes back to the use of recitative in classical Opera. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.63.171.24 (talk) 15:31, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

---

This unsigned comment about Rex Harrison may seem half-true to the untrained reader, but there is also an academic standard where you can't lump together historically similar things, like spoken arias in Opera and speaking performances of lyrics on Broadway under a term that was not in existence or applied at the time of their practice and existence. It would be like saying that 19th century author Kate Chopin was a feminist because her novel and short story themes indicate freedom for women. The term did not exist during her time, but feminists did recover her work, which fell into obscurity. She is a literary historical predecessor to feminism, but not a feminist writer. Can you see the difference?

The examples provided by 68.63.171.24 are historical predecessors to spoken word, but they are not spoken word, to be accuarate in the academic sense, you could say. Wikipedia needs to be accurate. A spoken word category is absolutely essential. Speedy deletion and hasty deletions by editors with no expertise in a genre or artform, like those by Vianello, is that his name?, who deleted a seminal spoken word band, East of Eden Band, create problems. He lost the article text, too, when I asked him to put it up temporarily so as to copy it. Have not heard from him since, which is disappointing.

Let those who are experts in the topics and fields have time to perfect the articles started by non-experts. I wonder about the wisdom of speedy deletion of East of Eden Band, the spoken word band, that received app 300 views a month while leaving in a British rock band. East of Eden (the band) that receives 0 views a month. How can a deleted article be petitioned for restoration? I petition the restoration of East of Eden Band, the spoken word band, or the start of a new article about them. Is there any way to locate the lost text for a speedy deleted article? There is a huge interest in spoken word and clarifications about the many uses of this term in Britain, US, Germany, etc., can be useful. By the way, tried to learn of editor Vianello's expertise--is he/she an expert in pornography? How can editors make judgements in areas and fields about which they have no knowledge? This would be an interesting area for dicussion by Wikipedia editors. PulitzerBoard (talk) 17:34, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

For accuracy, distinctions need clarification

The term spoken word means something a bit different depending on genre. I want to research this topic and add some clarity and accuracy to the terms in all its meanings. Need time to do it. Will add resources as I go. There is a German opera form that relates to teh musical Richard Harris in Camelot speaking a song lyric thing. That is not a direct lineage to the American form of spoken word. The spoken vocal could relate more to performance poetry working with bands than to spoken word as performance. In addition, this may be a performance art, but it is not always synonymous with performance art, the genre. Much distinction is needed between these terms to make this a solid article. Happy research on this topic, and use academic and legitimate sources pleez. I am adding this one to my list of research projects and will add soon. --70.153.71.47 (talk) 15:21, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

This article is not up to wiki standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.199.158.46 (talk) 23:16, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Definition of "spoken word"

The definition of "spoken word" is "word or words spoken aloud" as opposed to "written word". Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopaedia, so an article with this heading should be about the spoken word in general, not about a new term for what used to be called poetry declamation, which is what this article describes. Thomas Blomberg (talk) 02:11, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Support. The meaning of the term in Ireland is the same as in Britain. The article here needs to broaden its scope in order to be comprehensive and to avoid American parochialism. --O'Dea (talk) 08:07, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Major issues with this articles

The term spoken word is generally used these days to refer to a genre of recorded audio. It generally refers to recordings of audio nooks, poetry readings, lectures, and other certain other kinds of non-music recordings. It is sometimes also used to refer to readings of poems and other written words done before a live audience such as in the term "spoken word performance". So basically this article need to be improved to include these two different uses of the term "spoken word". It also needs to have a intro section as required by Wikipedia guidelines. --Cab88 (talk) 09:26, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Frankly, the whole thing could stand to be pulled and rewritten. It's a train wreck. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.125.86.72 (talk) 15:41, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Someone really needs to proofread this for spelling, grammar, and not neutrality, but quality. It's a disgrace to wikipedia in its current form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.77.176.123 (talk) 11:44, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Whoever added "however, spoken word artists also have graduate degrees from art schools and university English or communication programs." is obviously someone who has labeled themselves an "expert" in the field and felt the whole world should know that people like him have degrees. I don't think it's necessary or correct to say that spoken word artists "have graduate degrees in English and communication" Tooting their own horn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.148.127 (talk) 15:09, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

i agree that this article does not meet the standards for this site; it's terribly lopsided and does leave the impression that hedwig gorski invented spoken word. as an extremely active spoken word performer for more than a decade, i never even heard her name before seeing this article. all of the business about having/not having a college degree is also fairly irrelevant, as that is not a determining factor as to whether or not someone is a spoken word artist. i am speaking strictly from the US POV; while i understand the phrase means other things in europe that's outside my sphere of knowledge. spoken word in the US doesn't have a single agreed-upon definition, but for the most part is understood to be contemporary poetry performed live: performed as distinct from "read aloud". it is not slam poetry; slam is a sub-genre of spoken word and has a whole specific set of rules and guidelines which can be found on the . outside of slam, sometimes there is music, sometimes not. sometimes the work was specifically created with performance in mind; sometimes not. some of it is published, some not. the distinction is also sometimes called "page poetry" vs. "stage poetry" but that doesn't clarify it much. i bring up all these considerations only to point out that none of them are addressed in the current article, which leaves one with the impression that spoken word is a historical artifact rather than a contemporary art form. while hedwig gorski no doubt played her part in the early years of spoken word (or performance poetry -- the distinction is moot, in my view) she did not play a pivotal role as characterized in the present article, in which henry rollins gets a passing mention and patti smith gets none at all. (forgive me if i have made any newbie errors in leaving these comments, it's my first time speaking up on wikipedia.) Secretreader (talk) 18:16, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

'Why people perform spoken word' section

This section clearly falls short of acceptable standards in terms of neutrality and appropriate language. I'm not convinced that there needs to be a section on why people perform spoken word, but if there is to be one then it needs to be tidied up a lot. NNDEAN (talk) 19:23, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Motivation Section needs review

The last part of the Motivation section is very badly written and needs review:

" When talking about emotion, it depends. A spoken word piece can be powerful with the right emotion behind it but, at the same time, a lack of emotion can set a poem apart. It all depends on the topic. Life experiences are best, especially when the person has actually lived through the experience. Lastly, spoken word is used to inform or make an audience conscious of some human aspect pertaining to life.[14]"

"It depends" (?) What depends? What exactly in fact is this anonymous writer going on about, or are they expressing themselves poetically.

"some human aspect pertaining to life" - as opposed to the perspectives of an amoeba on death? I suppose this sentence uselessly encompasses the subject matter of virtually all art.

Also, this part suspiciously looks like the writer is trying to instruct the reader on how to make spoken word poetry, for which a Wikipedia article is not the appropriate venue.

Moreover, why is the section entitled "Motivation"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.214.18.235 (talk) 12:08, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Reference to first poetry slam is misleading

The article states: "The Nuyorican Poets Café in 1989 held the first documented poetry slam.[11]". The article it cites does not say that and as much as I would probably like The Nuyorican Poets Café, I don't think it deserves this moniker, especially since The Green Mill in Chicago held poetry slams as early as 1985, maybe earlier (this is from my personal memory, having attended several, see http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/5751). Sorry NY, maybe Chicago actually beat you on this one ;-) 81.47.179.40 (talk) 22:51, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Consolidation with List of performance poets

the list of spoken word artists should probably be consolidated with list of performance poets.

Deleted badly sourced and unnecessary sentences

I've removed a few single-sentence paragraphs from the article. In my judgment, they were all vague or needed significant expansion, were detached from the flow of the article. Furthermore, they were referenced with dead links. Looking over the talk page here, I'm considering nominating this article for deletion. At any rate, it needs serious work. Brian heim composer (talk) 15:38, 1 September 2015 (UTC)