Talk:SEK (Germany)

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SEK English name

@Robbie69: You changed the English name used in the article in January 2019 from 'Special Deployment Commando' to 'Special Operational Units'. Is that a translation you made yourself (in the edit summary you put "i am an English native speaker well versed in German police operations who has a degree in translation") or did you have a reference/source you used? I couldn't find an official English name used for SEK. The article was originally titled Spezialeinsatzkommandos and was re-titled (moved) in June 2016 by Mesoso2 to 'Special Deployment Commando' who also changed the introduction at the same time. Prior to this, 'Special Operations Command' had been used in the article introduction from May 2014. If there isn't an official title in English or common name used in English, the page should be re-titled. The article title could be restored to Spezialeinsatzkommandos or the abbreviation SEK could be used similar to other articles such as the GSG 9 and GIGN articles.--Melbguy05 (talk) 02:19, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 10 August 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was proposed in this section that Special Deployment Commando be renamed and moved to Spezialeinsatzkommando.

result:
Moved to SEK (Germany). Below is seen consensus to move away from the current title; however, no particular agreement for what the new title should become. In accord with WP:OTHEROPTIONS, a different option provided below and approved by the nominator has been chosen. If any editor disagrees with this choice, then a new move request can be opened at any time. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) P.I. Ellsworth ed. ^put'r there 07:05, 10 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Links: current log • target log

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Special Deployment Commando → Spezialeinsatzkommando – Use same page title as German Wikipedia de:Spezialeinsatzkommando and also French fr:Spezialeinsatzkommando. Title was originally Spezialeinsatzkommando and was moved by Mesoso2 in June 2016 to current title Special Deployment Commando. Page was moved obviously to use the English name of the unit. However, I can't find an official English name for SEK. Translations of the name vary including Special Deployment Commando, Special Task Force (using Google translator), Special Operations Command (using Microsoft translator), etc.. and the article introduction uses Special Operational Unit (following this edit in January 2019), etc.. Spezialeinsatzkommando is the name of the unit used by the Police (Polizei).^[1]^[2]

References

^ "SPEZIALEINSATZKOMMANDO (SEK)". Polizei Berlin. Retrieved 10 August 2020.
^ ""SPEZIALEINSATZKOMMANDO" (SEK) UND "MOBILES EINSATZKOMMANDO" (MEK) - HOCHSPEZIALISIERTE EINHEITEN". Polizei Hessen Karriere. Retrieved 10 August 2020.

– Melbguy05 (talk) 12:03, 10 August 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. — Amakuru (talk) 12:22, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The German name is the clear WP:COMMONNAME. WP:UE does not mandate moving every article to an English translation. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:33, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose but suggest relisting. None of the sources cited are in English! And stop looking for an official name, even if you find one that's a primary source and very little help here. Andrewa (talk) 16:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- If we cannot find a clear common name in English-language sources then where does it mandate that we automatically translate into English, especially when there is no definitive translation? -- Necrothesp (talk) 22:42, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Amakuru: There is no official name in English for the German police unit. By that I mean a name that German state police use on their website or in a publication. There is no English common name. In English the abbreviation SEK is used.^[1] Several different translations for the unit are used. An example of different translations is Getty Images it uses both 'Special Deployment Commando'^[2] and 'Special Operations Command'^[3] for SEK. SEK could have been used if it wasn't a disambiguation page. There was no consensus for the move by Mesoso2 in June 2016 to Special Deployment Commando.--Melbguy05 (talk) 15:09, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Necrothesp: Another title option is SEK (Germany) using the abbreviation SEK which is commonly used in English. The other uses for SEK on the disambiguation page are not German so there is no conflict and no conflict found in searches in Google and Bing.--Melbguy05 (talk) 12:13, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. The unit apparently has no common English name, so we should better use the original. The current title is an especially poor, word-for-word translation. No such user (talk) 14:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. A translation is better for the article title than a foreign word that isn't even used in English sources. Rreagan007 (talk) 17:11, 21 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Rreagan007: There is no translated common name. Special Deployment Commando is a word for word translation the same as Special Operations Command which also appears in Google search results. Other word for word translations include Special Task Force and Special Operations Unit (PONS Translator) etc... English sources use the abbreviation SEK.^[4]^[5]--Melbguy05 (talk) 12:08, 22 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Where in WP:UE does it say that Wikipedia should use a translation where one is not commonly used in English-language sources and there is no really accurate translation? Where does it say we should never use foreign words? -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:58, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Closer International Cooperation to fight hostage-taking, kidnapping and terrorism". Europol. 10 October 2018. Retrieved 20 August 2020.
^ "'GETEX' exercise with police and armed forces". Getty Images. 9 March 2017. Retrieved 20 August 2020.
^ "Start of trial in the Lübcke murder case". Getty Images. 16 June 2020. Retrieved 20 August 2020.
^ Katz, Samuel M. (1995). The Illustrated Guide to the World's Top Counter-Terrorist Forces. Hong Kong: Concord Publication Company. ISBN 9623616023.
^ Neville, Leigh (2017). European Counter-Terrorist Units 1972-2017. Illustrated by Adam Hook. Oxford: Osprey Publishing. ISBN 9781472825278.

Alternate proposal

I note above the comments In English the abbreviation SEK is used (and a ref is given) and SEK could have been used if it wasn't a disambiguation page and Another title option is SEK (Germany) using the abbreviation SEK which is commonly used in English. That seems the obvious solution to me, so I propose it here.

Perhaps relist again to allow discussion? Those seem three implicit policy-based supporting comments already. Plus mine of course. Andrewa (talk) 07:36, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. SEK is commonly used in English.--Melbguy05 (talk) 08:05, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

False identification of handguns in Photo

On the photo that says "SEK operators practice assaulting a building, armed with simunition Glocks." the used guns look more like SIG P220 series handguns rather than Glocks. --80.130.122.60 (talk) 22:18, 24 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

[1] "SPEZIALEINSATZKOMMANDO (SEK)". Polizei Berlin. Retrieved 10 August 2020.

[2] ""SPEZIALEINSATZKOMMANDO" (SEK) UND "MOBILES EINSATZKOMMANDO" (MEK) - HOCHSPEZIALISIERTE EINHEITEN". Polizei Hessen Karriere. Retrieved 10 August 2020.

[3] "Closer International Cooperation to fight hostage-taking, kidnapping and terrorism". Europol. 10 October 2018. Retrieved 20 August 2020.

[4] "'GETEX' exercise with police and armed forces". Getty Images. 9 March 2017. Retrieved 20 August 2020.

[5] "Start of trial in the Lübcke murder case". Getty Images. 16 June 2020. Retrieved 20 August 2020.

[6] Katz, Samuel M. (1995). The Illustrated Guide to the World's Top Counter-Terrorist Forces. Hong Kong: Concord Publication Company. ISBN 9623616023.

[7] Neville, Leigh (2017). European Counter-Terrorist Units 1972-2017. Illustrated by Adam Hook. Oxford: Osprey Publishing. ISBN 9781472825278.

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