Talk:Speaker of the Suns

From the Creator

This is my first article created. What I'd like to know is a couple things- one, is this going to be considered a stub, and two, can someone out there do the references? I remembered most of this from memory but it would look better if some references were added. I can only think of one title immediately, which is Dragons of Autumn Twilight. If any of you remember the titles of the books where this info is found, go ahead and do the references. I have completely forgotten most of the book titles where I read this. Thanks. DoomsDay349 22:42, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for creating this page. However, I must ask you to rewrite the article, it is quite similar to http://www.dl3e.com/lexicon/13204.aspx, and as is may qualify as copyright violation (lending to the deletion of the page). -- ReyBrujo 23:26, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I see... haven't seen that page before, have used the site though. Any tips on revising? I'll work on it tomorrow. DoomsDay349 04:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Ah, what the hey, I'll work on it now. DoomsDay349 04:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Just explain what the title means, how it was created, and the most renownable Speakers, their responsabilities and things like that. -- ReyBrujo 04:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Timeline

Thanks to whoever added that. It looks really nice. By the way, how did you do that (timeline)?DoomsDay349 14:34, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

It is a template based in the timeline element. I don't really think it is useful, because there are too many speakers missing (or too few, if you want to put it that way). -- ReyBrujo 15:00, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Still, the years are helpful and it improves the overall look of the page. DoomsDay349 16:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

In Regard to Red Links

I am planning on writing articles for all the red links on this page, however I would like to know of which books would be useful for info on Solostaran and Porthios. I would start them now, but I would hate to create a stub and abandon it for weeks until I could fix it. Thanks. DoomsDay349 21:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Chronicles has information about Solostaran. Porthios appears also in The Dark Elf, and War of Souls trilogy. I am surely missing some others, these are the easiest to remember. -- ReyBrujo 04:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Abbreviations

What "abbreviations" are on this page that may be "confusing or ambiguous"? I see no abbreviations at all. Someone please clarify. DoomsDay349 15:35, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Moving

Should we move it to Speaker of the Suns? DoomsDay349 17:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that is a more common title than this one. I almost could not find it. -- ReyBrujo 18:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. DoomsDay349 23:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't have the time to go back an correct everything, but it is Speaker of the Sun, not Speaker of the Suns. That is an inconsistency. You may want to correct your articles, but that is up to you.--Kranar drogin 21:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

But even the dlnexus has pages with the words speaker of the suns, as seen by http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Adlnexus.com+speaker+of+the+suns&btnG=Search Google search for speaker of the suns on dlnexus.com ddcc 04:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

According to the Annotated Chronicles, the correct form is Speaker of Suns, although all the books use Speaker of the Suns (page 810). -- ReyBrujo 04:48, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Listen you guys can do what you guys want, but Speaker of the Suns is wrong. Here is a small list of the books that has Speaker of the Sun: Dalamar the Dark, Dragons of a Vanished Moon (HC), Dragons of Summer Flame (HC), Kendermore, Kindred Spirits, Steel and Stone, The Dargonesti, The Dragons of Chaos, The Inheritance, The Odyssey of Gilthanas, The Puppet King, War of the Lance (Sourcebook), and Legends of the Twins (Sourcebook). As I said, this is just a small list. If you go into that search that you provided Ddcc, go to the Lexicon one (second from the top), and you will see in the entry that it lists Speaker of the Suns as an error. As I said though, you guys do what you want.--Kranar drogin 11:03, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The original chronicles states Speaker of the Suns. I would go by this for two reasons: A, its the origin of the titles, and B, it's from Margaret and Tracy who are the definitive sources. I realize Summer Flame and Vanished Moon are from Margaret and Tracy, but the Chronicles are to be taken as the supreme source for anything. It is the original after all. DoomsDay349 20:33, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, there's a reference in the page confirmins Suns. That pretty much closes the case. DoomsDay349 20:34, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, what does the Elven Exiles state? That would be a good source. DoomsDay349 20:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

LOL...Just because it is in the original doesn't make it part of continuity. Fine, you want page numbers, you got em, start referencing: Dalamar the Dark, 157, Dragons of a Vanished Moon (HC), 103, Dragons of Summer Flame (HC), 15, 91, 102, Kendermore, 16, Kindred Spirits, 3, Steel and Stone, 36, The Dargonesti, 1, The Dragons of Chaos, 34, The Inheritance, 13, The Odyssey of Gilthanas, 123, The Puppet King 24, The Puppet King, 123, 127, The Qualinesti, 3, The Second Generation, 299, 319, Theros Ironfeld, 259, Wanderlust, 19, War of the Lance (Sourcebook), 278, & Legends of the Twins, 33. There you go, check all those out, plus I suggest going either onto wizard's Boards or www.dragonlanceforums.com and ask the question about the Speaker of the Sun. Elven Exiles also states, Sanctuary, states on page 3, "Speaker of the Sun". How much more references do you want me to give you?

Also, incase you didn't know, Dragons of a Vanished Moon and Dragons of SUmmer Flame are both books that MW and TH have published after the Chronicles. And just for another thing to chew on, if you think Chronicles is the on thing to go by for continuity, then you have to allow drow, pg 399, (not Dark Elves) in DL.--Kranar drogin 22:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I am being bold and removing this poll from here, as it was developing into a non-constructive section with what some may consider uncivil comments. Feel free to restore any part of the deleted comments, but if so, please try to make constructive ones. Personally, I did not think Kranar's comments were too off, but at this moment, those comments were only heating the page. Stay cool, we are here to improve articles, not to disrupt them. Kranar believes the correct name is Speaker of the Sun, and he is free to believe that. I am too tired at this time to rebute everything Kranar has said, but I will just say something: Dalamar the Dark, 157. I quote page 159: A red mage undoing evil magic in a land where no magic was honored but white, the Speaker of the Stars dead, the children of the Speaker of the Suns running around wild (Used Amazon search, so page number may be slightly off). I am sure for every Speaker of the Suns there is a Speaker of the Sun. If we are to move the page, I would go with Speaker of Suns per my previous Annotated comment. The important thing is that the casual user should be able to find this article nevertheless what he has written. For now, I believe we need to take a break of this discussion, go play soccer, and then return with a clear mind. Finally, feel free to disagree with me. -- ReyBrujo 04:24, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

There is one last thing I want to quote before leaving this discussion. This post: http://www.dragonlanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9047&page=3, does deal with the Ionthas not the father of all gods. ddcc 05:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the High God is the father of all the gods, even over Ionthas. Should make a branch up from Ionthas to the High God, link http://www.dlnexus.com/lexicon/13297.aspx. As I said when I originally started this, I was trying to help you in correcting a mistake. If you really want the answer, go to the boards, get Margaret's e-mail, e-mail her and ask her directly. If not her, then you should e-mail Cam Banks also, or as I said originally, ask on the boards the question.--Kranar drogin 06:08, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah ReyBrujo, I didn't list the novels that have Speaker of the Suns, which also include Dalamar the Dark (page listed), Chronicles, and Stormblade. I should have listed that on the flipside. My list of ones that state Speaker of the Sun is only a small portion though, I can prolly find 10 books with Speaker of the Sun to one with Speaker of the Suns. Honestly, I have no idea why I am continueing this conversation. You all have made your discision. Sorry to have butted in on your articles, and I will relegate back to watch mode.--Kranar drogin 06:27, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Feel free to fix anything you find. Moving pages is a bit more difficult, because it requires administrator's help when the target page already exists. Unluckily, we can't just mail Margaret to get an answer, as that is original research. We need the information to be published in a reliable site beforehand. -- ReyBrujo 06:30, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I've added a few sentence in the Etymology section, hopefully it helps. DoomsDay349 00:32, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Links

Can we leave the links as they are and allow the redirect to handle it, or should we change all the links? DoomsDay349 23:54, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I've changed the link. ddcc 00:53, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Confused

This sentence According to Tracy Hickman, the correct form of address is Speaker of Suns. However, he does not explain why he continued using the Speaker of the Suns phrase instead. I'm a little confused, it doesn't really make sense, should the second Suns be changed to Sun? DoomsDay349 20:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

The exact citation is The correct form of address is Speaker of Suns. The fact that the address form is plural seems to indicate an ancient knowledge by the elves that there are 'other suns.' although there is no real foundation for this beliefe other than my own opinion. As to the reference here to 'Speaker of the Suns,' I can only hope that Lord Gunthar realizes that this is a slight breach of etiquette and does not use this form again, even though it was heard frequently in Qualinost.—TRH Thus, the author is stating that the correct naming convention is "Speaker of Suns." However, I don't believe we should continue moving the page around, as we soon will need admin intervention to overwrite redirects. -- ReyBrujo 18:33, 2 September 2006 (UTC)