Talk:Spanish Civil War/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Wusten fuchs 19:41, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well-writen:

(a) the prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct,

Done - Remove the capital A in section "1936", and that's it.

Done.

(b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.

Done

Factually accurate and verifiabl:

(a) it provides references to all sources of information in the section(s) dedicated to the attribution of these sources according to the guide to layout;

Not done - We need to add sources for sentences I wrote below.

(b) it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines;

Not done - Sources are reliable, but some sentences don't have sorces, when we fix that this will be done.

(c) it contains no original research.

Done

Broad in its coverage:

(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic,

Done

(b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail.

Done

Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias, giving due weight to each. Done

Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. Not done - I saw in "Revision history" of the article that there was a small conflict, but this can be solved, if we don't see any edit war in next two days, it will be fine.

Illustrated, if possible, by images: Done - We should add imiges of Legion Condor in "Foreign involvement" section, something like this [1], or this [2]. Also, images of Italians in war would be good, if ther is any. Also images of the International Brigades would be needed, something like this [3], or like this [4]. In section "Combatants" we should add images of Nationalist and Republican army, what about that famous image of Republican soldier falling dead (you should know it, I can't find it)?

Added some relevant images (two linked by you, good finds). You're thinking of The Falling Soldier; however, serious doubts have been raised about it being an actual shot or staged, so it's probably best not to use it here. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 09:24, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(a) images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content;

Done

(b) images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.

Done

SECTION "During the Second Republic"

It is necessary to write Asociación Católica de Propagandistas article in order to remove red link. We can't have red link in good article. And translate the title to English.

Red links are allowed in good articles, so I don't agree with you there. Translated.

I ment translate Asociación Católica de Propagandistas to Catholic Association of Propagandists.

It would be good if we add link for Alejandro Lerroux also.

Linked in the "During the constitutional monarchy" section (on first use).

Fine.

Not fine, it is Ok to have minimum red links in even a FEATURED ARTICLE. – Plarem ^{(User talk contribs)}

17:11, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

SECTION "Outcome" Done

I didn't notice that we have link for Santiago Casares Quiroga so far...

Linked.

SECTION "Foreign involvement" Done

"Forces fighting on behalf of the Republican faction also received support, but allies were seriously hampered by the non-intervention proclaimed by France and the United Kingdom." - Why to call them allies?

I think "the Republic's allies" is clearer, so I've changed it to that.

SECTION "Germany" Done

"Despite the German signing of a non-intervention agreement in September 1936, various forms of aid and military help from Germany found their way to both sides of the Spanish conflict, largely in support of the Nationalist faction." - This bolded part of sentence says that Germans also helped to Republicans, if they are other side of the Civil War. Is there source for that? And if there is a source, it would be good if we would explain how Germans aided Republicans.

Yes, there was some (cynical) help for the Republic by Germany; however, as a summary of the main page German involvement in the Spanish Civil War it would probably be undue to say how, since it wasn't very much. Whilst the means taken to sell arms to the Republic are well sourced in the main article, there isn't one single source that would neatly slow it there.

It is referenced in main article. Ok then.

SECTION "Italy" Done

"After Fransisco Franco’s request and encouragement by Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini joined the war." - Source?

Altered appropriately.

This sentence is fine...

"The Italian CTV would at its peak supply the rightists fifty thousand men, and by rotation, more than 75,000 Italians ultimately served the Nationalist faction." - Do we have a source for this?

Altered appropriately.

SECTION "International Brigades" Done

"Most volunteers were communists or trade unionists, and while many were organised by leftists sympathetic to the Soviet government and in some cases guided by Moscow,[citation needed] they were almost all individual volunteers." This sentence has "citation needed" tag, we must fix this because good article can't have such tags, and citation is needed.

Removed, since it's vague and doesn't add anything as well as being difficult to referece.

Fine.

SECTION "1936" Done

"Franco won another victory on 27 September when his troops relieved the Alcázar in Toledo[128] that had been held by A Nationalist garrison under Colonel Moscardo since the beginning of the rebellion, resisting thousands of Republican troops who totally surrounded the isolated building." - Capital "A" is not needed.

Changed.

SECTION "1939"

"Other calculations of these deaths range from 50,000[167] to 200,000. Many others were put to forced labour, building railways, drying out swamps, and digging canals. - Source for 200,000?

Changed.

"Of the 17,000 refugees housed in Gurs, farmers and others who could not find relations in France were encouraged by the Third Republic, in agreement with the Francoist government, to return to Spain." - Source needed.

"The great majority did so and were turned over to the Francoist authorities in Irún. From there they were transferred to the Miranda de Ebro camp for "purification" according to the Law of Political Responsibilities." - Source needed.

Working on these two points.

"After the proclamation by Marshal Philippe Pétain of the Vichy regime, the refugees became political prisoners, and the French police attempted to round up those who had been liberated from the camp. Along with other "undesirables", the Spaniards were sent to the Drancy internment camp before being deported to Nazi Germany." - Source needed.

That's in the video at the end of the section (sentence refs not being a GA or indeed FA requirement).

SECTION "Evacuation of the children"

"As war proceeded on the Northern front, Republican authorities arranged the evacuation of children." - Source needed.

"These Spanish War children were shipped to Britain, Belgium, the Soviet Union, other European countries and Mexico." - Source needed.

"The offspring were referred to as 'Basque refugees,' though in reality they comprised a diverse group." - Source needed.

"Those in Western European countries were able to return to their families after the war, but those in the Soviet Union, from Communist families, were forbidden to return — by both Stalin and Franco." - Source needed.

"The first opportunity for most of them to do so came in 1956, three years after Stalin's death." - Source needed.

"The Nationalist side also arranged evacuations of children, women and elderly from war zones.[citation needed] Refugee camps for those civilians evacuated by the Nationalists were set up in Portugal, Italy, Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium.[citation needed]" - Add citations so we don't have "citation needed" tags.

Hmm, I'll get on to these.

Update: I've rewritten the section entirely, and I'd welcome your thoughts.

Can you find source for 30–35,000 children, this information needs source. And what about those nationalist evacuations?

SECTION "Nationalists" Done

"Atrocities of the Nationalists, frequently ordered by authorities in order to eradicate any trace of leftism in Spain, were common. According to historian Paul Preston, the minimum number of those executed by the rebels is 130,000, and is likely to have been far higher." - Citation needed.

Added.

"Many such acts were committed by reactionary groups during the first weeks of the war." - Source needed.

I've duplicated the ref so that this is clear.

"Nationalists also murdered Catholic clerics." - Source needed. In article it is also told that they killed 16 priests who served Republicans as chaplains, and it is also stated that this action was particular, wich means they killed more priests on other occasions, so we need source for that. If we can't find source for this, then we should remove this sentence and leave only this particular incident.

I do not agree with your inference. I cannot reference there only being a small number of killings, and it's worded carefully to avoid the suggestion that the practice was widespread. The statement "Nationalists also murdered Catholic clerics." is true, and means nothing more, it has been worded to avoid that implication.

SECTION "Republicans" Done

"In Republican held territories, Roman Catholic churches, convents, monasteries, and cemeteries were desecrated." - Source needed.

Slightly altered to match the Beevor ref on the following sentence.

"Like clergy, civilians were executed in Republican territories. Some civilians were executed as suspected fifth columnists." - Source needed.

Changed/ref'd appropriately.

"Others died in acts of revenge after Republicans heard of massacres carried out in the Nationalist zone." - Source needed.

Cited.

"Republicans initially reacted to the attempted coup by arresting and executing actual and perceived Nationalists." - Source needed.

Removed as unnecessary as already covered a the beginning of the section.

"Communist Santiago Carrillo Solares has been accused of the killing of Nationalists in the Paracuellos massacre near Paracuellos del Jarama and Torrejón de Ardoz." - Source needed.

Change/cited.

SECTION "Social revolution" Done

"The pre-war Falange was a small party of some 30–40,000 members." - Source needed.

"It also called for a social revolution that would have seen Spanish society transformed by National Syndicalism." - Source needed.

"Following the execution of its leader, José Antonio Primo de Rivera, by the Republicans, the party swelled in size to over 400,000." - Source needed.

"Subsequently, Franco united all rightist parties into the ironically named Falange Española Tradicionalista de las Juntas de Ofensiva Nacional-Sindicalista (FET y de las JONS), or the Traditionalist Spanish Falange of the Unions of the National-Syndicalist Offensive." - Source needed. --Wusten fuchs 21:26, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've indicated with the large indent and colouring my replies; I'll endeavour to respond to the others as quickly as possible (I don't know how I missed your review, sorry for the late reply). Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 18:57, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've now referenced and/or changed those parts of the "Social revolution" section and the images. Since this is now quite long, could you possibly reiterate any points you think still haven't been covered? They might get lost otherwise. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 10:26, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, images are fine, no problems with that. Could you just find source for this, at the beginning of section:

"In the anarchist-controlled areas, Aragón and Catalonia, in addition to the temporary military success, there was a vast social revolution in which the workers and peasants collectivised land and industry, and set up councils parallel to the paralyzed Republican government."

"This revolution was opposed by both the Soviet-supported communists, who ultimately took their orders from Stalin's politburo (which feared a loss of control), and the Social Democratic Republicans (who worried about the loss of civil property rights)."

"As the war progressed, the government and the communists were able to leverage their access to Soviet arms to restore government control over the war effort, through both diplomacy and force."

"Anarchists and the Workers' Party of Marxist Unification (Partido Obrero de Unificación Marxista, or POUM) were integrated into the regular army, albeit with resistance; the POUM was outlawed and falsely denounced as an instrument of the fascists."

My mistake I didn't notice this... --Wusten fuchs 13:39, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done, I think, in a similar ref or alter style. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 15:16, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, we can move on now. --Wusten fuchs 20:32, 19 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Second opinion

Reviewer: Plarem (talk • contribs • count) 17:11, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, I am going to do the second opinion on this article. I hope you don't mind if I review it one more time.

GA review (see here for criteria)

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): b (MoS):
Prose quality is very good and this follows the WP:MOS very rigorously thanks to the other reviewer.
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
There is an awful lot of references, but is Ok for an article of this length, all the refs are to reliable sources and as far as I can see this contains no Original Research.
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): b (focused):
This article contains the major aspects of the topic and is focused on the preparations, during and aftermath of the civil war.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias:
All seems preety fair to me.
It is stable.
No edit wars etc.:
I can see that the page is stable.
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
All the images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales. The pictures are used appropriately with suitable captions.
Overall:
Pass/Fail: Finally, after a long wait you have gotten your GA Standards passed
Congratulations, – Plarem 21:18, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Further Comments from me

Now, remember I will have to take in mind what the other reviewer left and put it down here, but in a shorter form, but since you've done most of the things, then I am guessing that my review will be shorter.

One thing that I noticed from this review is that the first reviewer is thinking that the refs are a decorative feature because he wants them so much... REFERENCES ARE NOT DECORATIVE ELEMENTS.
Can you find source for 30–35,000 children? This information needs source. And that is the only ref problem that I can find. Done
And another thing that I can find is that the first reviewer is following the guidelines so rigorously as if this was a Featured Article Candidate. The GA guidelines are meant to measure DECENT articles.
I am really sorry, but this just came last minute:
Thomas, Hugh (1961, 1987, 2003). The Spanish Civil War. London: Penguin. ISBN 0-14-101161-0. OCLC 248799351.

Westwell, Ian (2004). Condor Legion: The Wehrmacht's Training Ground. Ian Allan publishing.

Wilson, Ann (1986). Images of the Civil War. London: Allen & Unwin.
Are out of place, making the page unneccesarily wide, can you fix it as this is making a distruption to the GA er... how can I call it... Coronation.

When this is adressed, I am putting the GA sign on the article. Done – Plarem ^{(User talk contribs)} 08:46, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've added the reference. Thanks, Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 18:35, 9 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know what you mean . They appear to be in the right place to me, if you think they are unintentionally in the wrong place. Could you elaborate? Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 17:55, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please see Spanish Civil War#Bibliography and books by noted authors and Spanish Civil War#Further reading and take the page more to the right and you will see out of space refs. If you find any problems then please tell me. – Plarem ^{(User talk contribs)}

18:57, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't see anything, so I've uploaded File:SCW_reported_ref_problem.png show you what I can see. Is it different for you? Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 19:08, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Now the scroller on the bottom; is it there? – Plarem ^{(User talk contribs)}

20:00, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I do not get a horizontal scrollbar unless I make the screen absurdly small (which I do not think is what you mean). Perhaps worth a mention on WP:VPT? Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 20:16, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is what I am talking about, I'll try and upload another one, a larger one if you want... – Plarem ^{(User talk contribs)}

20:31, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(undent). No, I think I can see your point in your screenshot (but nothing in mine!). Something odd going on. Obviously I don't want to preempt you, but might I suggest passing on it for the purpose of the GAN and examining it at, say, VPT. It is possibly a browser/OS problem. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 20:35, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jus tone last thing, this is my window as it is now... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plarem (talk • contribs) 20:37, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But if we need to go to WP:VPT with this, then this would have to be on hold for the time being. – Plarem ^{(User talk contribs)}

20:40, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll post on VPT. Grandiose (me, talk, contribs) 20:44, 10 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

PASS — Finally, after a long wait you have gotten your GA standards passed. Congratulations, – Plarem 21:18, 10 September 2011 (UTC)