Talk:Southwestern Advantage/Archive 1

Archive 1

Request to Review proposed changes (updated)

Hello, I am a paid editor, please find my disclosure here

Thank you so much for your reply. I have corrected The Numbering - now in sequence and I have also fixed the Indentations. I had a fresh look at it in the morning and it gave me an idea why it might have been problematic and confusing. I have tried my best to make sure that the requests are sequential so that it helps you "move along" smoothly. And I agree with you that once a sentence is done, we should not move back and request more changes.

I would be more than happy to assist you, if you need anything from me, please let me know. Thanks again.

1. Request to remove "multi-level-marketing" and replace it with "Direct Selling"

(A) Lead Page: Southwestern Advantage, formerly known as Southwestern Company, is a multi-level marketing company that recruits and trains college and university students as independent contractors to sell educational books, software, and website subscriptions door-to-doorusing direct selling methods.

(B) Some dealers are invited to return in subsequent years as managers, who recruit their own teams during the school year and earn a percentage commission on the sales of their team, as in multi-level marketing.

Reasons:

There is no reference for the claim that Southwestern Advantage is a Multi-level-marketing company

Personal Findings:

Southwestern Advantage is a Direct selling company and not a multi-level marketing based company. I am attaching a quote from the reference on the main page here for your convenience.

"Southwestern Advantage is a direct seller and publisher of educational and reference products including books, CD-ROMs and a subscription-based website."

Reply 2-APR-2019

Not done
The two terms are related, as one is a subtype of the other.

 Spintendo  17:04, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

2.Removal of the sentence highlighted in bold.

Because students hired are independent contractors, they are expected to fully finance their living expenses, food, gas, and rent, even when on company trips. In addition, expenses of the required Sunday meetings with managers paid for by the students themselves. Foreign students must pay for their visas and airfare themselves.

Reason:

There is a reference for a claim, but the claim does not state what the reference does

Personal Findings:

Upon investigating the reference, I found no proof of this claim that "Students are expected to finance themselves on company trips"

Reply 2-APR-2019

Not done
The sales agreement form indicates that these costs would be incurred by the individual up front, with renumeration at a later date.

 Spintendo  17:04, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

3. Remove, "require" from the sentence "In addition, expenses of the required Sunday meetings with managers paid for by the students themselve"

In addition, expenses of the required Sunday meetings with managers paid for by the students themselves. Foreign students must pay for their visas and airfare themselves.

Reason:

There is a reference for a claim, but the claim does not state what the reference does

Personal Findings:

The reference does not represent the claim that there is a "requirement" for students to attend and pay for Sunday Meetings.

Reply 2-APR-2019

 CN tag added
This reference was not active, so a cn tag was added.

 Spintendo  17:04, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

4. Removal of the sentence "Students regularly work 72 or more hours per week, almost twice the upper limit imposed by the Fair Labor Standards Act.

Reason:

The reference for the claim is not working or unreachable

Personal Findings:

The fair labor standards act applies to employers/employees, minimum wage, and overtime pay; it does not apply to independent contractors who run their own business and choose their own working hours.

Reply 2-APR-2019

 CN tag added
This reference was not active, so a cn tag was added.

 Spintendo  17:04, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

5. Replacing the paragraph "Students provide the company a letter of credit signed by two endorsers, typically the student's parents, in which the endorsers agree to be responsible for up to $500 each if the student fails to pay any money owed to the company at the end of the summer. ,WITH , "The company requires no up-front inventory purchasing, and provides all training and initial sales supplies free of charge. Students provide the company with a Parent Support Letter, signed by the student's parents or guardians, in which the endorsers state their awareness and support of the student’s participation..

Reasons:

This seems to be a case where the reference is questionable as per WP:references , it is a copy of the letter of credit used by the company years ago and has some commentary below ,

Personal Findings:

This claim seems to be incorrect in respect to the references.The company ended using letters of credit years ago; and no parents or endorsers have any financial responsibility for a student’s failure to pay money owed at the end of summer..

Reply 2-APR-2019

Not done
The company ending the practice does not mean the practice never occurred. The paragraph's language should be altered to reflect both the new and the old practices.

 Spintendo  17:04, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

6. Removal of the paragraph "According to the anti-human trafficking charity Polaris, organizations often send their recruiters to target unemployed young people and college students with promises of high profits. As independent contractors, Southwestern Advantage avoids the Fair Labor Standards Act's mandates for minimum wage or overtime pay.

Reason:

There is no reference for the claim

Personal Findings:

it is a general article that explains facets of the industry as a whole and does not mention Southwestern Advantage.

Reply 2-APR-2019

 CN tag added
The ref tag for the general report was moved up a sentence and a cn tag was applied to the rest.

 Spintendo  17:15, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

7. Working "Expectations and Income" instead of "Working Conditions and Income:

Reasons:

Working Conditions imply that SouthWestern Advantage Contractors work in a facility, which is not true. The word "expectations" would be more clear since the workers are independent contractors.

Reply 2-APR-2019

Not done
A person need not work only in a facility to meet this definition. An independent contractor still experiences factors required of them by an employer, such as access to meal times, work hour requirements, and expenses. These would all constitute their working conditions.

 Spintendo  17:15, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

8. Removal of the words highlighted in bold from the sentence "Students typically have a host family near their sales area, generally alumni, family of other interns, or families found by door-to-door appeals. Housing is not guaranteed by the company.

Replacing it with, "Students typically have a host family near their sales area, generally alumni, family of other participants, previous host families, or families found by door-to-door appeals. The company assists participants in securing housing through a Host Family Coordinator, but ultimately the responsibility for securing and maintaining housing is on the participants..

Reasons:

• The first word, "interns" is incorrect, the reference does not mention "interns" but mentions "family"
• . "Housing is not guaranteed by the company", this claim is partially true as it does not shed light on how the company assists its participants in finding housing through a host family coordinator.

Reply 2-APR-2019

 Partly-done
The word interns was replaced with students.

 Spintendo  17:15, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

9. Removing the paragraph "Dealers report working 72 or more hours per week in the field, making 30 or more presentations each day, in addition to time spent on bookkeeping, talking to managers or at sales meetings held each Sunday. According to the company, in 2010 the average first-year dealer who stayed with the program for over 20 days grossed $2,415 per month before expenses, which usually range from $1,500 to $3,000.

Reasons:

There are 2 issues with this paragraph"

• It can be said that these claims are not cited.
• The reference for this claim does not work, "According to the company, in 2010 the average first-year dealer who stayed with the program for over 20 days grossed $2,415 per month before expenses,

Reply 2-APR-2019

 Additional sources needed tag added

 Spintendo  17:15, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

10. Request to review an addition (update) in the "Working Condition" section:

The company trains that a successful selling season involves 12 or more working hours per day during the summer, Monday through Saturday, contacting 30 or more families each day. The hours worked apply to time actually spent in the field and do not include time spent on record keeping, coaching calls, or at sales meetings. Total expenses for the summer vary by the individual, but commonly range from $1,500 to $3,000. As independent contractors, expenses are generally tax-deductible. There are no sales quotas. All participants are able to earn [[Passive income|residual income]] through the sales of the subscription apps and websites. The average total income of five-time US participants in the program was $137,522 in 2018.

Reply 2-APR-2019

Not done
It is unclear what is meant by five time US participants.

 Spintendo  17:41, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

11. Replace the sentence "Students are taught to indirectly ask if there are other families in the neighborhood who may have small children." with, "Salespeople prospect for clients using a combination of door-to-door cold calling and client referrals.

Reason:

This claim is taken from here, "He explained it is standard procedure for salesmen to ask customers for leads on other families in the neighborhood who may have small children. This is done to save time so salesmen can skip visiting the homes of people who would not be interested in the product.". Therefore, "taught to indirectly ask" sounds sneaky and perhaps, it is a misrepresentation because it is a Sales procedure for prospect clients and not a "secret" unethical procedure that the sales rep has to ask indirectly.

Reply 2-APR-2019

 Done
Leaving out the rest of the sentence is clearly misleading. The full quote was placed.

 Spintendo  17:41, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

12. Removing the sentence "Such questions have sometimes been regarded as suspicious, resulting in complaints to local police, close police scrutiny and even an arrest for disorderly conduct. "

Reason:

There is a reference for a claim, but the claim does not state what the reference does

Reply 2-APR-2019

 Claim removed
This too, is misleading. Placing more information into the article such as a quote as was done with the prior request, would not explain the nuances of why this individual was detained. As the police reported nothing wrong with this individual except his lack of permit, it would be better to remove the entire mention altogether.

 Spintendo  17:41, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

13. Expanding the the sentence to reflect the citation "Students are encouraged to leave their cellphones at home to focus on the task at hand, but it is not required."

Reason:

This claim is taken from here, "Mobile phone's that are not registered in the country a student is selling in can be highly expensive to use and also distracting throughout the daytime. The communication system in either country is excellent, students all have host families and inexpensive calling cards can be recommended by managers eliminating the need for mobile phone and the risk of a high bill at the end of the summer."

Perhaps we can say, "Students are encouraged not use their cell phones during day time because they are expensive and distracting.

Reply 2-APR-2019

 Claim removed.
This level of detail is too much for the article, per WP:NOTEVERYTHING.

 Spintendo  17:41, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

14. Replacing the words highlighted in bold: "At the end of the summer, products are shipped to the dealers, who revisit the homes where they made a sale to deliver the product and collect any balance due. Dealers generally pay their living expenses out of the down payments they collect, remitting the rest to the company to cover wholesale costs. Dealers return to headquarters in Nashville, where they settle accounts and receive a check for the season's earnings.

Reason:

• "Dealers" seems like a mistake, the products are shipped to US Participants, dealers are only part of that.
• "Earnings", the correct term here would be, "Savings"

Reply 2-APR-2019

Not done
Dealers is a term that is used by the company, and it seems that it would not be the case that US participants would be visiting their own homes to collect the monies.

 Spintendo  18:02, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

15. Removal of the sentence, "Some dealers are invited to return in subsequent years as managers, who recruit their own teams during the school year and earn a percentage commission on the sales of their team, as in multi-level marketing."

Reason:

This claim is not cited

Reply 2-APR-2019

 CN tag added


 Spintendo  18:02, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

16. Addition (update) for the "Working conditions and income" section

All participants who complete one or more years are provided with a professional career counselor for their career path and resume at no charge.

Reply 2-APR-2019

Not done
In the claim "are provided with a professional career counselor for their career path" is is not clear what is meant by the word for. It seems that whatever actions performed by the counselor on behalf of the student have been subsumed under the word "for" without any clarification on what they are exactly doing for the student's career path.

 Spintendo  18:02, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

17. Sorry to add this now, Please review this sentence in lead page, "The company has notably garnered significant criticism for its poor working conditions and exploitation of students, and it has been banned from many campuses in the United States and United Kingdom"

It seems to me that this part is based on the last section, I feel that this does reflect that section but deviates it. They were banned from those universities but that did not bring notable criticism as claimed here. When we say, "they garnered notable criticism", to me that means that the company had the attention of press and media and that notable sources criticised them in various publications. I am interested to know your opinion on this. Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 17:59, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Reply 2-APR-2019

 Proposal required
If you would like to suggest a re-wording of this information, please feel free to do so here on the talk page.

 Spintendo  18:08, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Kind Regards, Saad Ahmed2983 (talk) 13:27, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

References