Talk:Souleymane Coulibaly

Notability

I've added a couple of sources to this article, all from a credible source. It's unclear to me why this article was proposed for deletion, while the subject isn't only the tournaments topscorer, but he ties for All-time topscorer, and is already a highly prolific scorer, with his goals to match time average, a goal every 40 minutes. On the other hand, Max Clayton is NOT proposed for deletion. This a player who scored just one goal, will likely never make a lasting impression outside his immediate circle of friends and family, has just ONE source, and plays two leagues lower than Coulibaly. The only advantage that Clayton SEEMS to have on Coulibaly is that he plays professionally for the English SECOND league, while Coulibaly plays professionally for the Serie A under 19s.

Googling "Max Clayton" footballer produces about 13500 hits. Taking into account that the web is heavily slanted towards all things Western and English speaking, it's all the more remarkable that googling "Souleymane Coulibaly" produces about 167,000 hits, more than ten times as many. I hope that this settles the matter of notability, and that together with the sources of credible sites will settle everything else.

Bottom line, if Souleymane Coulibaly is up for deletion, then Max Clayton should be deleted right away. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CrashTestSmartie (talk • contribs) 11:51, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

WP:NFOOTBALL states that what a player achieves in their youth doesn't make them notable. Using WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS as a reason to keep an article isn't valid. Max Clayton, along with Juan Cruz Mascia, José Francisco Cevallos, Kenneth Zohore and others have all played in a fully professional league. If Coulibaly has played in Serie A then I wouldn't have nominated it for deletion. A mention by Talksport and Goal doesn't satisfy WP:GNG and three other sources are to FIFA which isn't a secondary source. Chances are he will make the grade but until he does he isn't notable. I'll take it to AfD and if there is consensus to keep then I will accept it. I don't think there is anything notable about Raheem Sterling, an Englishman in the same boat as Coulibaly, but there he is because no consensus was reached at multiple AfD's, so there is no bias on my part. Argyle 4 Life^talk 12:43, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

As Argyle 4 Life says, it looks as if Coulibaly does not meet WP:GNG and WP:NFOOTY, and that as a result other editors may well vote to have this article deleted. Should this happen, you (CrashTestSmartie) may wish to save a copy of the article in your userspace. It can then be reinstated when/if Coulibaly makes an appearance for the senior sides of Cote D'Ivoire or Siena (or any other team in a professional league). As a caveat, a number of professionals make a big impact at youth international level but do not go on to have a successful career (e.g. Andrew Bagshaw was a big success for Scotland at u16/18 level but did not go on to make any first team appearances for his club (Aberdeen) and now plays for non-league Formartine United F.C.). Deserter1 13:10, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Coulibaly meets WP:GNG, no reason to delete the page in my opinion. TonyStarks (talk) 10:04, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

A player or a person who has more than half a million hits on search engines, more than a quarter million when his name is coupled with his profession, surely meets WP:GNG (Of which more than 500 pages are mainly about him. Please tell us why you think he does NOT meet WP:GNG? Coulibaly is only the hottest young player on the transfer market, meaning, he is gonna sell for the highest amount in his age group, so why you think that he doesn't meet WP:GNG, is frankly beyond me.

Also, according to http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/souleymane-coulibaly/leistungsdaten-vereindetail/spieler_177185_12863.html, he played 11 matches for Siena, and last I checked, that wasn't a victim organisation that needs charity in the form of players. In other words, he has a contract with Siena so they pay him. As would be indicated by the fact that he's about to be sold to Tottenham or Real Madrid, http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2011/07/09/2567163/tottenham-prepare-2m-bid-for-ivory-coast-wonderkid But he meets WP:GNG. Just saying "looks as if he doesn't meet it" won't cut it. Also, why is the Serie A the cut off point? Why not Serie B, or Serie C? These are professional nation wide leagues. If Serie B or C "don't count" then why should the english lower leagues count? [[WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS] doesn't apply, since what goes for the goose, goes for the gander.

Also, why aren't goal.com and fifa.com credible sources to you? Goal.com IS a secondary source, and saying FIFA is NOT a secondary source is stretching things a LOT. FIFA is a secondary source because they have no direct interest in Coulibaly. 2nd source refers to not having a direct interest in the subject, not that there IS ANY relationship whatsoever. Anyways, the relationship between FIFA and Coulibaly is very limited at best.

And "a mention isn't enough"? That it just a mention is your opinion. Fact is, the man has around 100 pages that are specifically about him on that site. More secondary sources:

http://www.realmadrid.de/pena/transfermarkt/1835-%5Bzugang%5D-souleymane-coulibaly-zu-real-madrid.html

http://www.futaa.com/football/article/FIFA-U17-Souleymane-Coulibaly-shines

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jun/28/rumour-mill-liverpool-diego-wayne-bridge

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/jun/28/rumour-mill-liverpool-diego-wayne-bridge

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/siena-primavera/startseite/verein_12863.html

http://www.acsiena.it/2011/05/03/coulibaly-convocato-per-lo-stagedella-costa-davorio-under-17/

http://www.acsiena.it/2011/07/01/la-costa-davorio-fuori-dai-mondialicoulibaly-ancora-a-segno/

http://www.imscouting.com/global-news-article/Chelsea-and-Real-Madrid-favourites-as-AC-Milan- look-to-offload-Pato/7129/

http://sport.freenet.de/fussball/international/souleymane-coulibaly-die-sensation-der-u17wm-eine-brutale-tormaschine_2758778_489860.html

http://www.corrieredellosport.it/calcio/coppa_america/2011/06/21-179561/Mondiale+Under+17,+Germania+a+valanga

http://www.jwww.weltfussball.de/presseschau/2-international/_n8730590_new-didier-drogba-souleymane-coulibaly-hearing-that-real-madrids-jose-mourin/

CrashTestSmartie (talk) 14:14, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

FWIW the transfermarkt reference says he has played for Siena Primavera which is the youth team... Hack (talk) 14:30, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Firstly, I've noted that no-one has asserted that Coulibaly is NOT notable enough. As things are, reality has vindicated me, so .... Secondly, Youth team, schmouth team. Point 1, according to the dodgy criteria you entertain, that IS a professional contract he has. They aren't amateurs. It's a testing ground, or whatever you wanna call it.

But the larger issue is that players like these, who are WITHOUT A DOUBT very, and highly notable, are on the threat of being purged because they "haven't played in a professional league" ??? I really resent the dodgy logic on WP:NFOOTY not to speak of the extremely dodgy logic on WP:GNG

Notability should always trump WP:NFOOTY, so in my opinion, that one player who was top scorer at the Commonwealth Games, but never played again should get an article, provided there were credible news-sources who wrote about him at the time.CrashTestSmartie (talk) 10:16, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

"Secondly, Youth team, schmouth team" - the team he played for is important in determining his notability using the WP:NSPORTS. Your previous post implied he was notable for his appearances for Siena. Regarding your concerns about the two notability criteria would be best discussed on the relevant talk pages for the criteria. Hack (talk) 12:27, 27 July 2011 (UTC)