Talk:Solyanka

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Food and drink, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of food and drink related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Food and drinkWikipedia:WikiProject Food and drinkTemplate:WikiProject Food and drinkFood and drink articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Food and Drink task list:

To edit this page, select here

Here are some tasks you can do for WikiProject Food and drink:

Help bring these Top Importance articles currently B Status or below up to GA status: Agaricus bisporus (i.e. mushroom), Beef, Bread, Curry, Drink, Food, Ham and eggs, Soy sauce, Sushi, Yogurt
Bring these Top Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Beer, French cuisine, Sugar
Bring these High Importance articles currently at GA status up to FA status: Apple, Burger King, Fish
Participate in project-related deletion discussions.
Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review WP:Trivia and WP:Handling trivia to learn how to do this.
Add the {{WikiProject Food and drink}} project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects, select here.
Provide photographs and images for Category:Wikipedia requested images of food
Consider joining this project's Assessment task force. List any project ideas in this section

Note: These lists are transcluded from the project's tasks pages.

Russia

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Salty mushrooms?

What are salty mushrooms? Does this mean salted mushrooms? What kind of mushrooms? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.233.0.24 (talk) 01:40, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

type

Isn't solyanka also a type of cold beetroot soup? // Liftarn

Nope. That's svekol'nik or cold borsch, depending on preparation method. There's other type of solyanka, though. Not soup, but a dish of stewed cabbage with meat, close to bigos. --Khathi 07:47, 19 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Soljanka...

There should be a redirect from the German transcription of Soljanka to this page... Dreammaker182 (talk) 09:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"It may have originated in Ukraine in the 17th century."\

Any reference? Any source? On the other hand there are plenty of references to Soljanka (or Selenka from selo - or hamlet, village) being an ancient Muscovite dish, both mentioned in cookbooks from the late 17 and 18 century and in Alexander Dahl's 19th century dictionary of common Russian language (never mind that Ukraine did not even exist in 17th century, not even in the sense of geographic concept). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.129.116.60 (talk) 16:26, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In fact there is an 18th century street in Moscow called Solianka - http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rue_Solianka —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.129.116.60 (talk) 16:58, 26 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

One More Meaning

There is a second course dish made of meat stewed with mix of sauerkraut and cabbage with spices which often called "Solyanka". Basically that is Russian / Ukrainian name for Bigos. Mecooking (talk) 04:33, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In Georgia

I don't know if it's considered a Georgian dish or a Russian dish in Georgia but I ate it for the first time last night in a coastal village called Anaklia just south of the Abkhazia border. It seems to be spelled სოლიანკა. — Hippietrail (talk) 12:59, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Country of origin and region

Looking at this talk page, and at the article itself, it appears that everything is based on contributor's conviction as to how accurate their speculation is (i.e., this is known as WP:OR). Does anyone have any reliable and verifiable sources as to the country of origin and, most particularly, the region of origin (Moscow!?)? Considering that there is now a citation for Ukraine as being the country of origin, it certainly makes Moscow as the region of origin highly dubious.

Eastern European cuisines didn't remain in one country. By the very nature of exchange of ideas, trade, etc. between Eastern Slavs, you don't make hard and fast rules up according to your own opinion if you haven't actually got a clue. Thank you for your attention, and for not adding content to an encyclopaedic resource as you make it up. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:08, 12 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This has got to be one of the worst citations on the origin of a meal i have ever seen. Basically all this author said was that the word Solyanka means salt and it "may" have originated in the Ukraine. Terrible. Waiting for it to be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.45.171.198 (talk) 21:10, 8 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think we have a good sense of how neutral your WP:POV is based on this edit. Read WP:SOAPBOX (and why you shouldn't treat an article talk page as one), plus stop making WP:POINTy edits. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 01:50, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Country of origin and edits amounting to vandalism

Wiki editors, we need to talk.

On April 9, 2024, user MykolaHK incorrectly tagged one of the previous sources, which stated that solyanka is of Russian origin, as "dubious". After that, the article was subject to further "pro-Ukrainian" vandalism and in its current version still contains misinformation about a possible Ukrainian origin and highly speculative "bro science" about Polish bigos and the Polish occupation of Moscow in the early 17th century.

1. The source that was removed was absolutely not dubious. Its removal was highly dubious, but the source wasn't. It is freely available online, for example here: https://chtyvo.org.ua/authors/Heorhiievskyi_Mykola/Ukrainska_kukhnia/

It was written by people infinitely more qualified in terms of knowledge of Ukrainian and Russian culinary history than the individuals making the above-mentioned edits. This source, written in Ukrainian, literally says that solyanka entered Ukrainian cuisine as a borrowing from Russian cuisine. Here's a snippet from the book stating that: https://i.postimg.cc/d1rCp12z/Capture.jpg

The source is a 330 page book about Ukrainian cuisine. On the basis of what was this source tagged as dubious and then removed?

2. There isn't any debate among actual scholars about whether solyanka is of Russian or Ukrainian origin. The "debate" is pretty much entirely limited to online "info warriors" with very little knowledge about Russian or Ukrainian culinary history. And this is very easy to demonstrate.

Solyanka or selyanka is mentioned in detail in numerous Russian cookbooks and other sources since at least the 19th century as a Russian dish. These sources do not suggest any origin in Ukraine, unlike for example the case with borsch. Meanwhile, Ukrainian sources from before the Soviet period (when solyanka became widespread in Ukraine) talking about solyanka and claiming that it is a Ukrainian dish or of Ukrainian origin literally don't exist.

Anyone thinking that solyanka is of Ukrainian origin has to explain why restaurants of the west Ukrainian diaspora outside Ukraine (i.e. in Canada and other countries) didn't know about this dish and didn't serve it (and usually still don't). They certainly knew about and served borsch, but not solyanka. Meanwhile, every Russian restaurant since the 19th century served solyanka.

3. But what about the one cited source here ("Cooking Through History") saying that solyanka "possibly originated in the Ukraine"? It's just a silly mistake. This source doesn't even describe what exactly solyanka is. Again, where is the solyanka in old Ukrainian diaspora restaurants? Where is it mentioned in old Ukrainian literature and cookbooks? If the answer is nowhere (and it is), that effectively answers the question of whether it is of Russian or Ukrainian origin. Dmitriev23 (talk) 04:40, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The full ridiculousness of the edits mentioned above is further illustrated by the citation of this article (https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/09/24/how-russian-solyanka-was-born-from-polish-bigos-a78881) to suggest that solyanka may have originated from Polish bigos. The article quotes one Konstantin Skalkovsky, describing him as a "Russian writer and publicist." But Konstantin Skalkovsky was born in Odessa and spent most of his life in Ukraine. His father was from Zhytomyr in west-central Ukraine. So if solyanka was actually a dish of Ukrainian origin, presumably he would know about that! And he wouldn't refer to it as "Moscow selyanka" and wouldn't compare this Moscow selyanka to Polish bigos. Dmitriev23 (talk) 05:09, 23 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]