Talk:Soegondo Djojopoespito

A fact from Soegondo Djojopoespito appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 27 August 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Soegondo Djojopoespito was banned from teaching after he joined the Indonesian Nationalist Education organization?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Soegondo Djojopoespito.

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:18, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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~~... that Soegondo Djojopoespito was banned from teaching after he joined the Indonesian Nationalist Education party?~~ Source: Mengenal Taman Wijaya Brata: Makam Pahlawan Pejuang Bangsa (1996), p. 90
- ALT1:~~... that Soegondo Djojopoespito created the beranting (branched) method, which was similar to the pyramid scheme, to recruit new members for the Indonesian Nationalist Education?~~ Source: Soegondo Djojopoespito: Hasil Karya dan Pengabdiannya (1999), p. 36

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Anthony Kohlmann

5x expanded by Jeromi Mikhael (talk). Self-nominated at 10:31, 14 July 2020 (UTC).[reply]

5x expansion verified. New enough, long enough, adequately referenced. As all sources are foreign-language or offline, unable to check for close paraphrasing. QPQ done.
I have added a "clarification needed" tag to the term rationalization of soldiers. What does this mean?
Both hooks are fine, sourcing is AGF and cited inline. I added the word party after the name of the organization; alternately, it could be called an organization or political organization. Here is a grammar tweak of ALT1a:
ALT1a:~~... that Soegondo Djojopoespito created the beranting (branched) method, similar to a pyramid scheme, to recruit new members to the Indonesian Nationalist Education party?~~
Yoninah (talk) 11:01, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: There's this "rationalization" term in Indonesia, on which at that time Indonesian has a massive yet unskilled soldiers. So, the government decided to reduce the amount of soldiers to make Indonesian army smaller but more professional. The reduction was done by dismissing unskilled soldiers, demoting the ranks of soldiers who originally came from PETA, and promoting the ranks of soldiers who originally came from Royal Netherlands East Indies Army. The term "rationalization" here refers to the reduction. Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 12:13, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Well, you've explained it very nicely, and if you put all that into the article it would make more sense to readers who aren't familiar with the term. Alternately, you could write in the article that he decided to focus on the government's effort to reduce the size of the army by retaining only professional soldiers. But just leaving "rationalization" in there without a link to a Wikipedia page or any explanation doesn't really work. Yoninah (talk) 15:04, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ALT1b:.~~.. that Soegondo Djojopoespito created the beranting (branched) method, similar to a pyramid scheme, to recruit new members to the Indonesian Nationalist Education organization?~~

@Yoninah: It's more of an organization. Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 23:39, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeromi Mikhael: thank you for fixing up the article. I just have two questions about ALT1b. I'm running the source through Google Translate and don't see anything about the pyramid system on p. 36. Also, Google Translation is calling Indonesian Nationalist Education a "party". What do you think about "political organization"? Yoninah (talk) 02:35, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: The p.36 describes the beranting method as a pyramid scheme implicitly. And you could see the link for the organization :"In December 1930, Sutan Sjahrir established an organization called Indonesian Nationalist Education (Indonesian: Pendidikan Nasional Indonesia)..." Jeromi Mikhael (talk) 02:40, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jeromi Mikhael: OK, now I see where the source is translating "beranting" as the "relay method" but you're translating it as a pyramid scheme. The problem with your definition is that it refers to a type of business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products (quoted from Wikipedia's article). I was once hooked into a pyramid scheme of paying money to the people at the top and adding my name to the bottom of the list; the scheme relies on more and more people joining in, in order for anyone to receive any money. I don't think this is what beranting means at all. Please consider re-translating it. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 12:58, 16 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Yoninah: ALT2:... that Soegondo Djojopoespito was banned from teaching after he joined the Indonesian Nationalist Education organization?

OK. Foreign-language hook ref AGF and cited inline. ALT2 good to go. Yoninah (talk) 11:53, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]