Talk:Soanya Ahmad

This article was previously deleted after consensus in 2007. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Soanya_Ahmad Perhaps merging it with Reid Stowe may be better than deletion? Aloha27 (talk) 14:29, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Jac 1688 - This article is very poorly sourced. If one were to delete the content that is not sourced at all, the content that is sourced to the subject herself, and the content that is sourced to a blog -- there wouldn't be an article. Also, how is a sailing trip to Guyana noteworthy? For that matter, how is the article itself noteworthy when the only significant claim is a world record that has not been confirmed by any major organization, such as Guinness? Regatta dog (talk) 15:37, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

• AGREE- Article fails WP:N as a stand-alone. Should be merged with Reid Stowe entry IMO. Cannot source "record" anywhere. Who held the previous record and for how long? Regards.Aloha27 (talk) 16:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Trip to Guyana -- A simple trip to Guyana is very insignificant. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia - It should not be used as a personal travel blog or Twitter feed. Do we create an article for every person who sails from the US to South America? Or do we update any boater's article whenever they leave the dock. This is silly, IMO. I would like to get some input on these topics from Skol Fir. Regatta dog (talk) 19:04, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

The following is a direct quote from the WSSRC website: (Underlines mine) Note that we have a policy of not ratifying "youngest/oldest etc" claims or attempts and our rules do not include such categories. We concentrate on speed record attempts and claims, and no longer recognise "human condition" categories which can expand to such an extent that almost anyone would be able to claim a record of some sort. The other issue is that whilst we can clearly monitor and ratify "speed/time" records - at which we have become rather expert - the verification of age/ disability/marital status etc is a less exact science. Here is the link to the existing "records of other kinds" page: http://www.sailspeedrecords.com/other-kinds-of-sailing-records.html Regards Aloha27 (talk) 06:40, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Record of longest time at sea ("Merge" discussion section)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result was merge into Reid Stowe. -- Skol fir (talk) 18:25, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

---

Let's do this logically, without taking sides for the moment.

I am not actually sure who keeps the "Longest Time at Sea" record, since the WSSRC doesn't want to touch it with a ten-foot pole! What I do know is that at least two reputable sources state that Cottee set that record for a single-handed woman sailor ::

• "In 1988, Cottee set seven world records including: the first woman to circumnavigate the globe non-stop and unassisted; longest time spent alone at sea by a woman; greatest non-stop distance travelled at sea by a solo woman; first woman to circumnavigate west to east, south of five capes in the southern hemisphere, and fastest time and speed for a solo circumnavigation by a woman."

(taken from Australian of the Year - Kay Cottee AO - 1988 Award)

• "Through her epic voyage Cottee set several records. As well as being the first woman to single-handedly circumnavigate the globe, she spent the longest time alone at sea for a woman, sailed the longest non-stop distance and set the fastest time and fastest speed for the journey."

(taken from First lady of high seas)

For a male sailor, the "Longest series -- non stop, singlehanded circumnavigations" was done by "Jon Sanders, AUS; 1986-1988; 3 continuous circumnavigations one westabout, two eastabout, 657 days" -- taken from the Other Kinds of Sailing Records at the WSSRC. That record does not specifically dwell on the time it took, but more on the number of circumnavigations, and the fact that they were all in a continuous series -- impressive, indeed!

So, the question remains -- Who invented the record "longest time at sea"? We know it was there before Reid Stowe and Soanya Ahmad came on the scene, because Cottee supposedly holds that record for a single-handed sailor (woman) since 1988. It was never recognized by Guinness BOR, as they only gave Sanders the "longest distance ever sailed continuously by any vessel (71,023 nautical miles)."

As we don't know who actually recognizes such a record, it remains contestable, but so far no one has provided solid evidence to refute it. However, assuming that we accept the GPS tracking as proof that Soanya did not leap off the schooner at any time during the 306 days, I don't see why she cannot say that she is probably the woman with the longest continuous time at sea, since women stepped foot on sea-going vessels. We don't need to call it a record, just an accomplishment. If you don't think that warrants a separate article for her, so be it. --Skol fir (talk) 03:08, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

If we look at Jessica Watson here on Wikipedia, she took 210 days for her solo circumnavigation. There is no mention of her being the "longest" anything. Guinness and the WSSRC would be the only credible keeper of records IMO. Regards Aloha27 (talk) 11:12, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

That's an interesting case, Aloha27. First of all, Jessica Watson's circumnavigation would not have been accepted by the WSSRC anyway, because she did not meet their requirements for a full circumnavigation. The WSSRC definition states in part "The shortest orthodromic track of the vessel must be at least 21,600 nm (40,000 km) in length." The orthodromic distance for Watson's route was calculated to be only 18,582 nm. Watson and her team probably were not interested in the finer details of the WSSRC rules, because they already knew that the WSSRC was no longer recognizing the "youngest sailor" category anyway. Ironically, in the Watson article, it also states that "a number of sailors, like Kay Cottee, followed a similar route which has been accepted."

It is also true that no one has paid any attention to the length of time Jessica took for her journey around the world. Actually, the difference between start and end dates was 209, but if they counted the first day as Day 1 instead of Day 0 (which is more correct), then she arrived on Day 210. The difference is still 209. Anyway, you are right in saying that neither Jessica nor anyone else has pointed out the fact that she stayed out longer at sea than Cottee, which would have been a new record for a female, single-handed sailor (not yet a woman, as Jessica only turned 18 this year). As you say, not even the media has picked up on that one, and Watson was probably just happy to be the youngest to sail around the world, and to have made it safely home!

I still think that Soanya's article should stand alone (not merge with Reid Stowe). Please look at WP:PEOPLE -- Basic criteria: "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of multiple published secondary sources which are reliable, intellectually independent of each other, and independent of the subject." I think that despite the fact that Soanya may not have achieved an official record, she has still garnered a lot of attention in the press and other media, which by itself justifies a separate article. In other words, she has still accomplished quite a feat for a woman, living on a boat at sea for that length of time. It's like the difference between an Academy Award and a People's Choice Award. She would probably get the latter. The media have taken a keen interest in her, and several independent sources have covered this story, like it or not...and on another note, Reid Stowe is also in an issue of Ripley's "Believe It or Not!" --Skol fir (talk) 17:05, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Like it or not, comparing Ahmad to Cottee is ludicrous. Any and all media interest (let's face it, you know and I know the mainstream media avoided this event like the plague) was generated by "1000 days" press releases and propaganda.

I think you're twisting the facts here. Cottee was a solo sailor with a circumnavigation that took 189 days. The record stands to this day because it was the FIRST solo circumnavigation of the globe by a woman. Conversely Ahmad, in her own words "preferred to stay below", and rarely, (if ever) took an active part in actually sailing the vessel. Since Ahmad IMO is a classic case of WP:BLP1E, merge the article with Stowe's and be done with it. Regards Aloha27 (talk) 06:24, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

I never compared Ahmad to Cottee. I only brought Cottee into the article to answer your question above -- "Who held the previous record and for how long? Regards.Aloha27 (talk) 16:04, 26 November 2011 (UTC)". So, I answered your question, who held that record previously. Various sources, as I already inserted into the article, have stated that Cottee held that record (for longest time at sea) irrespective of her being the first to solo circumnavigate. Soanya's record has nothing to do with the speed-sailing world. It is solely related to cruising sailors remaining on the open sea for very long time periods, which is more of a logistics and endurance feat. You try it yourself, and see how long you last before you have to call for assistance!

I still stand by my statement above, that Soanya deserves her own article, as she, as a woman, played a unique and essential role in Reid Stowe's own voyage of 1,152 days. First of all, without her willingness to accompany him, it is certainly questionable whether Reid would have ever left Hoboken on April 21, 2007. He always stated in the past that he intended to go with a crew, and failing that, with one companion. That companion turned out to be Soanya Ahmad, and the rest is history. --Skol fir (talk) 22:25, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Nice bit of twisting of the facts. Well done. Cottee's stated record is for solo sailing, not as crew. The 189 days was the length of time it took for her to complete her SOLO circumnavigation and was the record for a woman to be at sea SOLO at that time. So, once again I will ask... WHO HELD THE PREVIOUS RECORD OF THE LONGEST TIME SPENT AT SEA AND FOR HOW LONG? AND where can this information be verified?

The logistics and endurance "feat" isn't a factor here and is the reason WSSRC tightened their rules for record-setting attempts. As for me setting out to "cruise" for an extended period of time, that isn't an option at the moment as I am employed. We'll see what happens in a couple of years after I retire. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't require assistance because I became pregnant though. Regards Aloha27 (talk) 00:05, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I already answered your question. Why did you ask it anyway? Were you just trying to find a spurious reason to ditch this article? If so, you have failed. Have a nice day! --Skol fir (talk) 01:41, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

It has been over one week since the merger proposal was placed. I see no evidence presented at all by the proposer that this article should be merged with another one. The burden of proof rests with the proposer. I have refuted every argument the proposer has made. Furthermore, as I stated above, Soanya's contribution to the 1000-day Voyage by Reid Stowe was not just ancillary, but essential to the voyage happening at all. Therefore WP:BLP1E does not apply here. I quote, "If the event is significant and the individual's role within it is substantial and well-documented a separate biography may be appropriate."

User:Aloha27 appears to have a fixation on solo circumnavigation by a woman, in his attempt to discount Soanya Ahmad's own achievement. Soanya never claimed she went solo, nor completed a circumnavigation, so any comparison with Cottee is irrelevant to Soanya's own record of being at sea for longer than any other woman. I argue that any sailing body such as the WSSRC has no interest in this endurance record because they are more interested in offshore speed records. Furthermore, in a recent edit, substantial supportive evidence for Soanya's claim was surreptitiously removed by User:Aloha27:

On February 22, 2008 Soanya achieved a world record for the longest time that any woman has remained at sea, with a time of 306 days spent on board the schooner Anne, together with Reid Stowe. She was brought ashore by members of the Royal Perth Yacht Club off Rottnest Island, near Perth, Western Australia. The entire route of the schooner Anne was verified daily by GPS tracking, and the manufacturer of the equipment has made the database available online.

These referenced statements were in the article until this unexplained deletion—unexplained, because the user's edit summary only referred to another concurrent deletion—and they prove that Soanya left the schooner by transfer to the boat of the RPYC near Rottnest Island, AUS, and that the entire voyage had been verified by satellite tracking. Therefore there is no doubt about the veracity of her claim and that of Reid Stowe, that she completed a voyage at sea without stopping for 306 days.

If no new nor different information is presented, than what has already been discussed above, I will close this merger proposal. --Skol fir (talk) 02:46, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Weak. Really Weak. Since you have no intention or are unable to state unequivocally who held the previous record for longest time spent at sea (non-solo), we must assume that no record existed prior to Ahmad's claim? I have no problem with the 306 days claimed. Never have. But IS it the record time for a woman to be at sea? You don't know. I don't know. Nobody does. Since women have been sailing for the past 250+ years I can safely say that it is truly doubtful. Why? Glad you asked.

Women have been Captains of pirate ships, disguised themselves as male crewmembers, accompanied their mariner husbands aboard ship. Women are crewmembers aboard nuclear submarines, spending up to a year (or more) patrolling the world's oceans without ever making port. So, if Ahmad wishes to claim a record, so be it. BUT, you cannot sit there and attempt to tell us that suddenly... BAM! 306 days is the magic number.

As far as WP:BLP1E goes, you conveniently neglected the main issue. I quote: " People notable for only one event Main pages: WP:BLP1E and WP:BIO1E People known only in connection with one event should generally not have an article written about them. If the event is notable, then an article usually should be written about the event instead."

Therefore, merge the article with "1000 days" and be done with it. Regards Aloha27 (talk) 18:02, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

It's actually quite simple, really. Soanya Ahmad has achieved a record for any woman, never mind whether solo or non-solo. Cottee never denied the record she held for 20 years, as the longest at sea for any woman, and if you questioned her personally about it, I am sure that she would stand by it. Obviously, "Longest at Sea" is not a record that a speed sailing council would be keeping or encouraging, as their primary goal is to promote fast sailing, not cruising.

You are absolutely mistaken about women on submarines. Submarines do not assign women to submarine crews because of the restrictions to privacy and habitability onboard a submarine.

Even the men have to go back to port or at least resupply every 90 days, because their food supply lasts only that long, on average.

See: U.S. Navy Submarines FAQ.

• Women officers have completed their training and will begin serving on American subs this year, but have been serving on submarines of the world's navies since 1988.
• Wrong. Surface ships and submarines carry supplies for MUCH longer than that on a regular basis.

• Then why would the link state in the very first question about having to be underwater for MONTHS?

(I hate to have to fire a Harpoon missle at a US military reference website, but it is outdated by a year and requires updating.)

Finally, you must be joking that the people on the old sailing vessels going back to Egypt in 4000 B.C. were interested in staying out at sea without resupply for 10 months or more! They were more interested in survival, warfare, trade, etc.—not trying to make an endurance record.

• Just a quick research showed the ship Hector left Loch Broom, Scotland on or about 1 July 1773 and landed at Pictou, Nova Scotia on September 15, a 77-day ordeal. (passenger list includes 23 families and 25 single men.) I'm sure there are others.

What both Reid Stowe and Soanya Ahmad have accomplished for longevity at sea was only possible in the modern age, which has the benefit of long-term food storage, new information about non-perishable food items that cover all nutritional needs while away from land, and knowledge about diseases that we can contract at sea, and how to prevent them—all information and technology that was not available to people 100s of years ago.

The record of "longest at sea" is not something that anyone else has deliberately set out to accomplish, because it takes a special kind of person to be able to carry it out. You obviously don't understand that kind of person. That is your problem, and don't judge others based on your own limited viewpoint.

Why is deliberation important when considering the validity or importance of a record? The longest survival time in a life raft was 133 days. The holder of that record didn't deliberately set out to accomplish that endurance record. It doesn't take a "special kind of person". In Soanya's case, free time and opportunity appear to have played a larger role in her record claim than anything else. She was a novice sailor and by her own accounts spent a great deal of time below in her bunk. It doesn't take a special kind of person to be a passenger on a 70' cruising yacht, regardless of the time at sea.

Let's assume for a moment that deliberation is a factor worth consideration. She "deliberately set out to accomplish" staying at sea for 100 days. She only "accomplished" one third of her goal. By any reasonable measurement, she failed. She's obviously not the "special kind of person to be able to carry it out."

Regarding records for longest time at sea by a woman, I would guess there might have been a whaler's wife or female aboard a British blockade ship that spent a longer time at sea no stop, but I agree with Aloha that the onus for digging that up is on the author. Then, if things play out as usual, the author will add additional criteria to justify the article such as the longest time for a woman at see "without resupply", "without sighting land", "who got pregnant", or some other qualifier that would make the article even more insignificant than it currently is.

Finally -- "Soanya spent a total of 306 days on board the schooner Anne with Reid Stowe, who subsequently claimed a world record on her behalf..." No one can possibly argue that this is a valid source. Regatta dog (talk) 16:25, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

You keep pulling out the case of WP:BLP1E. The part I quoted is further down, and it is a condition for allowing a separate article even if the person is mainly known for one event. She played a crucial part in that event. That is why she warrants a separate article. The statement you quoted is the preamble before the explanation. I am afraid that you have not provided a single shred of evidence to support a merger of the two articles. --Skol fir (talk) 02:51, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

A CRUCIAL part in that event?

She was a sailing novice and was gone less than a third of the way into the voyage and she rarely, if ever, took an active role in the operation of the boat, preferring to stay below. Regards Aloha27 (talk) 06:12, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

---

---

• • Opposed to merger: This article deserves to stand alone. It is a BLP of a bright, enterprising young woman, with a B.A. degree, concentrating in photography, and additional training in marine technology, who was a major participant in a significant event. As a woman, she deserves separate recognition from her partner, Reid Stowe, because of her total involvement in the 1000-day voyage at least 1 year before the schooner even set sail, her willingness to be a full and equal partner in the project, her assistance in preparing the stores and inventory for the voyage, and her remaining on board for 306 days on the open ocean (no resupply). Everything written in this article is backed up by numerous secondary sources (of which there are many more). There is also much more that can be added to expand and further improve this article about this individual. --Skol fir (talk) 04:40, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

• • • In Favor of merger. Point by point --

• • • • To say the subject is "bright" and "enterprising" suggests you might be too biased toward the subject to make an unbiased call on this. Bright and enterprising are merely your opinions.
      • Her education is irrelevant.
      • The significance of the event itself is questionable.
      • I agree that her sex would be relevant, but only if she had played a more active roll in the trip. By her own account she spent much of her time below and incapacitated while Reid sailed the boat virtually solo.
      • Perhaps the other volunteers who assisted in the preparations (a few of them with more time involved and more critical roles than the subject) should have their own articles as well?
      • Reading the 1000 days website, she was not a full and equal partner in the project.
      • "her assistance in preparing stores and inventory" suggests, yet again, a secondary role vs. an equal partner.
      • She "remained on board" - Again, if you read the 1000 days website, it is apparent that her roll was more of passenger than participant.
      • Numerous secondary sources - I would appreciate seeing secondary sources that are not regurgitations of what the trip's PR team sent out in Press Releases, bios, and quotes from the subject and Mr. Stowe. One of the major sources for this article is Charles Doane, who sailed the last leg of the trip up the Hudson with Mr. Stowe and is strongly opinionated in Mr. Stowe's favor - hardly an unbiased secondary source when writing about this subject.

• • • This is not worthy of a stand alone Wiki article, IMO. Based on the majority of the sourcing, this is nothing more than a self promotional autobiography. 50.133.156.162 (talk) 15:40, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

So as not to be accused as being underhanded and sneaky, the above was written by me. Forgot to log on. Sorry Regatta dog (talk) 15:42, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

EARLY LIFE - The section was from the subject's website, which is acceptable in some respects, but when Skol fir included a link to a Channer interview and the interview didn't corroborate the claims, that doesn't pass muster, IMO. Where in the interview is it confirmed that the subject received a BA in Photography? I went to the college website and can't even find a BA in photography.

Regatta dog, for your information, what you cut out of the article included the words: "she graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree with a concentration in photography." Try actually going to the website (which you obviously did not, unless you are totally incompetent). At Photography Program you have the option to click on "Courses" -- "Students who choose to do their concentration in photography take several foundation courses in black and white photography...Graduates of the program earn a B.A. degree. Although we offer only an undergraduate program, many graduate students from various studio art areas choose to take photography courses." --Skol fir (talk) 08:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Not that it matters.

Oh, now that's nice! Make an issue out of nothing, then say it does not matter! Why mention it in the first place, if it does not matter? Oh, I see...you need a way out, in case you are proven wrong. Your objectivity here is greatly in doubt. You should not even be editing this article. I actually have less and less respect for your editing here, now that I see it is totally insincere and malicious, without a hint of neutrality. --Skol fir (talk) 08:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Claiming a BA and referencing a third party source that doesn't even mention it is not adequate sourcing. Where did this BA come from? Any reliable source to confirm that? If her own website is adequate, she might as well claim a PhD in Marine Science.

The third party source allows us to hear Soanya herself, in the interview with Harold Channer. She basically backs up everything that was stated in the section about her early life, only not in as much detail as I have done here. --Skol fir (talk) 08:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

Also, I ask anyone who's reading this to watch the interview with Channer and chime in if this interview is at all impartial. Regatta dog (talk) 02:48, 7 January 2012 (UTC)— Regatta dog (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

I ask anyone to look at Regatta dog's record of contributions here at Wikipedia, and notice how his sole purpose at Wikipedia has been to defame and denounce Reid Stowe or Soanya Ahmad. Regatta dog's creation of a single-purpose account undermines the credibility of his statements here on the Talk Page, and the legitimacy of his edits on the corresponding articles for Reid Stowe and Soanya Ahmad. Furthermore, he pretends not to know about the three-revert rule when he has been told many times about it in the past, and continues to repeat the offence as recently as January 6, 2012 (cutting out an entire section for the third time within 3 hours), after being warned 10 hours prior to the latest offence -- See Regatta dog's Talk Page.

--Skol fir (talk) 08:30, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

My deepest apologies for misreading the BA vs. Emphasis. I made a mistake, but I don't think making an honest mistake is worthy of the kind of response I have received from Skol Fir, but based on his [ersaonal attacks on editors in the past, I am not surprised.

I stick by my assertion that the Channer interview and the subjects own website are really not good sources for this article. Skol Fir argued in the past that the NY Daily News is not a credible site, but now asserts that the subject's own promotional materials and an interview with an obscure person who does nothing to hide his adoration of the subject is credible. This whole article is poorly sourced. I leave it to other editors to judge not only my neutrality, but the neutrality of Skol Fir. My presence as an editor provides much needed balance to a person unworthy of a stand alone biography.

The repetitive personal insults from you, Skol Fir, are troubling and call into account your own neutrality regarding this article. Regatta dog (talk) 21:24, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not separate truth from fiction. It presents what is verifiable from various reliable sources. Regatta dog -- NY Daily News was tarnished by your own personal involvement and known meetings with the author of one or more of their articles on Reid Stowe, thereby creating a clear and unmistakable conflict of interest. That is why we cannot use that newspaper as a source on Reid Stowe. You personally contributed the information to defame Reid Stowe. That is not neutral. That is not what constitutes a neutral editor at Wikipedia. I do not wish to dig up all the old discussions we had on the Reid Stowe article. If you cannot remember all the details, go back and read the archives.

I also pointed out to you here and in other discussions that a person's own website may be used for reference in their own biography, as long as it is not the only source. If someone interviews the subject of the biography and posts the result of the interview, as an article or as a complete video, the facts of the interview are there for all to see. It is wrong for you to assume that because someone is fond of the subject, the information from that interview is inadmissible as a reference. Furthermore, if someone more critical of the subject asks her pointed, critical questions, that would also be admissible, as long as the subject is involved in the exchange. Certainly, there have been many interviews with Reid Stowe and Soanya, where pointed questions were asked, and they had a chance to explain their motives, and to answer the criticism that they were bound to get by stepping outside the norms of mainstream society and behaving differently from those who resent them. Find such an interview and present it, if you are serious at balancing this article. --Skol fir (talk) 22:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You are incorrect, Skol fir. I never met with an author at the NYDN. I was interviewed over the phone and there was nothing defamatory in my statements to the reporter. You assert that my having contact with reporter creates a "clear and unmistakable conflict of interest". Are you prepared to apply that standard across the board? If so, the personal relationships the subject has with Channer and Doane create an even greater conflict of interest than you attribute to me and the NYDN.

Responses to interview questions are not facts, Skol fir, they are simply answers. To present them as facts is erroneous. There is a reason why reporters and editors use phrases like "according to Jane Doe" and "Jane Doe said". In the Stowe thread, Reid claimed to have met Moitessier. It was presented as fact and later debunked. If the subject posts information on her website and then verbalizes the same information in an interview, that is not corroboration, and can certainly not be viewed as factual.Regatta dog (talk) 23:23, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

• Per Banaticus (User talk: Banaticus)on my talk page [[1]] the result is MERGE. I will move the article as soon as I can. Regards Aloha27 (talk) 14:14, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Performing the "Merge"

Aloha27, it appears that Banaticus has provided that extra voice, to make it 3 against 1. This merge discussion has been going on long enough (over one month) and as the original creator of this article, I will gladly help you make the proper merge into Reid Stowe according to WP:MERGETEXT. I propose that we do a Full-content paste merger to allow the History and Talk Page to be preserved for this article. If you want, I can do the "merge" into a new section at Reid Stowe. After that, any editors can suggest changes to be made to that section to improve it.

Let me know what you think. --Skol fir (talk) 17:57, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, that's what I was going to suggest as well with the senior Wikipedians and adms performing most of the heavy lifting. I'm not even sure at the moment just where the merged article should fit. Regards Aloha27 (talk) 22:43, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Here is one suggestion. We consider the voyage with Soanya as Part 1 of the 1000-day trip. We can even give it the title "New York to Australia, with Soanya Ahmad." This will be a sub-heading (Level 3) of the current "The 1000-day voyage" (Level 2) with any duplicated information edited out. That's where Soanya features prominently anyway.

Most of "Significant events" already deals with the Soanya departure from the schooner, so that will have its own heading now, called "Soanya leaves the journey." The rest of "Significant events", that deals with Reid only, gets moved into the current section "Completion of the voyage". We may need more subheadings, as required.

I think I can handle the merger myself, as I have read through the instructions and did not get too confused. :-) --Skol fir (talk) 03:28, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

I should be able to complete the Full-content paste merger by the same time tomorrow. --Skol fir (talk) 04:55, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Aloha and a very hearty thanks to you, Skol fir. I am pleasantly surprised by this turn of events and appreciate your change of heart. The merger makes sense. Regatta dog (talk) 05:27, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

It's democracy in action. I still intend to defend Reid Stowe's right to privacy and leaving his personal foibles out of this. My reasons for opposing the "digging up of dirt" on Reid were not based on personal preference, but well-established principles for a BLP, and the extra sensitivity that requires. My concession here applies only to the "Soanya" article. I hope that is clear. You, Regatta dog and Aloha27, argued forcefully and well, on the merger issue, and I am glad we could come to some kind of agreement here. --Skol fir (talk) 06:25, 27 January 2012 (UTC)