Talk:Smudge stick/Archive 1

Archive 1

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Duly removed. -Uyvsdi (talk) 22:56, 14 March 2010 (UTC)Uyvsdi

What is smudging...?

"Smudging" redirects to this article (Smudge stick) but I'm mystified as to what smudging actually is. The article mentions burning smudge sticks (and also mentions burning incense as if that is similar) so I assume that burning is involved somehow – but how? Is it done in an enclosed space or in the open? Is it done on a fire or is the smudge stick just lit? Or does it vary? Richard New Forest (talk) 09:49, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Basically its lighting one end of the stick blowing it out so its smouldering/smoking and then waving it about. The smoke is then blown over what ever it is which needs cleansing, be it a room, person or other object so it will be done inside or outside as appropriate. There may well be other ritual elements as well. [1] is a more comprehensive description.--Salix (talk): 13:36, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

"cultural appropriation"

Per the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_appropriation cultural appropriation:

'Cultural appropriation is the adoption of some specific elements of one culture by a different cultural group. It describes acculturation or assimilation, but can imply a negative view towards acculturation from a minority culture by a dominant culture.'

and

' A more neutral term is cultural assimilation which does not imply blame.'

Seems like this article needs to be re-written to be more neutral to me, but maybe this is a widely held 'proof' of appropriation or something I don't know about. Khallus Maximus (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:32, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

"Smudge Sticks" are in most cases a prime example of cultural appropriation. The language is as neutral as is possible for a phenomena such as this. - Slàn, Kathryn NicDhàna ♫♦♫ 01:14, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

If you are going to flag an article, you need to furnish concrete suggestions for improvement based on citable information. "Cultural appropriation" is an appropriately neutral term, and wp:Wikipedia is not censored. The best approach is if you can suggest additional commentary that is cited to add to the article. -Uyvsdi (talk) 21:57, 21 February 2014 (UTC)Uyvsdi

I agree that this article is ideologically coloured in a way that it depicts usage of "non-indigenous" people as very negative. I do not care if the author feels that way; it is simply not objective and has nothing to do in an article on wikipedia. When I read the article, I've had the strong feeling of just reading someone's rant about something, than an actual explanation of the thing this article is about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:CE:13D6:F718:FD26:1496:DF20:F8F5 (talk) 22:25, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I added a "too few opinions" warning, put "citation needed" wherever it belonged, and bundled all the controversy under the header "controversy". -Bladina 18:05, 02 July 2017 (UTC)

Also removed this false statement: "Cultural appropriation of Native American spiritual ceremonies has been addressed by the United Nations in the Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, which advocates for protection of traditional knowledge and Indigenous intellectual property." Nowhere in The Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples is cultural appropriation mentioned. It is, as stated above, a neutral term - not a negative one, and not synonymous with cultural misappropriation. -Bladina 09:23, 08 July 2017 (UTC)

Condescending vs Controversial.

Don't start an edit war because you don't understand there is a difference between the two words.

Condescending (What I said)

 Having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority.

Controversial (What you thought I said)

 giving rise or likely to give rise to public disagreement.

By assuming everyone is trying to emulate Native American practices instead of having their own cultural use you are being Condescending. That is why I removed it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.206.154.127 (talk) 01:27, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure what your point is, driveby IP. You're the one projecting tone into a neutral statement. Smudging with sage is a Native American practice. Those who are not Native who are doing something they call smudging, that uses the materials, gestures and beliefs involved in smudging, are imitating the original practice. Even when they get it wrong. That's not condescending, it's just descriptive. If you want to talk about use of scent and scented smoke in other ways and other cultures, go to the Incense article or something like that. If these basic facts are unknown to you, may I gently suggest you aren't familiar enough with the topic to be doing this. - CorbieV^☊☼ 19:15, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

See that is the problem... you are editing on wikipedia and seem to have trouble with the language. This article isn't about Native Americans. It is about Smudge sticks in general. If You want to talk just about that group YOU could alway go to Native_Americans_in_the_United_States. Otherwise this article should NOT be biase to that group.

Driveby IP... that is clever. I haven't bothered to register because of asshats like yourself with their Holier-than-thou attitude on here and their censorship of edits they don't agree or want to talk with.

Please let me know if you have trouble with the big words again. I can see from your post that you are still having trouble with "condescending" since you are still deciding that the Native American version of "Smudging" (Smudging... with smudge sticks..which the article is about) MUST be the NA version because other version are wrong.

I'm just removing what I consider biased. How about a discussion about it instead of just pointing out all other uses are wrong? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.206.154.127 (talk) 16:21, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Referring to someone as an "asshat" is a violation of Wikipedia's policy on civility. Please refrain. Seriously.

Please explain (ideally with reliable sources) where "smudge stick" is found in a non-Native American context that wasn't borrowed from NA culture. Yes, herbal smoke and incense have been used in many cultures for purification, and continue to be so used to this day, but the smudge stick per se is specific to NA cultures.

Obviously, I'm always ready to be proved wrong, so if you have reliable sources to the contrary, please cite them.

Thanks,

*Septegram*Talk*Contributions* 20:04, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Article speaks very little about smudge sticks; preaches defensively about some specific and arbitrary American native culture throughout

I wanted to read about the various plants that various regions and cultures use in burning, hoping to make a gift for a Mexican American whose family in Mexico does this. Instead I found an article that rants incessantly about white people stealing from native American tribes and so-called cultural appropriation. Even though the fist paragraph specifically notes that "smudging is a non native American terminology" for the general practice and use by cultures around the world.

Can someone please gut this article, create one small miniscule reference to cultural appropriation in a buried subheading that links to the main article on [cultural appropriation], and then rework it so this article can focus on all the various regions, peoples, plants and practices without it reading like a diatribe? I would like to make my Mexican friend a gift in New Mexico. 67.0.36.189 (talk) 06:45, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

Propose Name Change

I don't think Smudge stick is the best name for this article, as it's for the most part a misnomer. I've never heard Natives use this term. I'll check later, but I think this article was started by someone who didn't know the full cultural scope here. For instance, it was initially part of a Wiccan group of articles. Rather than focus on the appropriated object, under a name few people use for it, maybe it would be best to tweak this a bit and move it to the current redirect at Smudging. - CorbieV ^☊ ☼ 04:02, 22 October 2016 (UTC)