Talk:Smoking (cooking)/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Tofu and nuts

Hi, I have no idea at all how to edit a page and will not risk ruining it. I just wanted to add that Smoked Tofu is very common and could go under the Protein section on the list. There are manufacturers all over the place, Germany, UK, US, Asia... and these are sold commercially. Also have seen smoked nuts like almonds - cheaper ones use seasoning that is applied in powder with smoke, but I have seen real smoked nuts. Thats all, Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.137.40.199 (talk) 13:24, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

A quick Google search shows 2.1 million hits for smoked tofu and 7.8 million for smoked nuts. I think that's sufficient to include them in the list, I'll do that now. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:48, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

History?

I think we should include a section on History. Although there are snipets in the rest of the article, it would be good to indicate how far back people have been smoking food. As the article says, food hung up to dry over a fire would automatically smoke, but at some point this must have become an intentional process. Do we have records of, say medieval smoking of food?

IceDragon64 (talk) 00:07, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

• Well, please feel free to track down that info with citations and add it :) I agree that a comprehensive section (or even a full article eventually) would be swell, but that is a lot of data to compile, more than a weekend worth. Dennis Brown (talk) 00:31, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
• Sorry to "bump" this (go to any internet forum anywhere for the definition), but I really think that we should add a History section. I know for a fact that the Algonquin and Iroquois Native Americans smoked fish a lot.

That's really all I know though about the history of smoking. Steel Wool Killer (talk) 00:23, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

I can't say I know much about it myself, but I found a few good refs and have pounded out a very basic section on the history of smoking food. Feel free to expand if anyone can fnd more information. Beeblebrox (talk) 04:08, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Health Risks

I note that the Cancer Research UK source states that "smoking and barbecuing foods so that they are slightly burnt on the outside causes chemicals called polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons to form." I think this point should be expanded upon if possible as it limits the dangers to more specific situations. It should also be made clear that the formation of HCA's and PAH's is not unique to the smoking process, and occurs when muscle meat is cooked using other high-temperature methods, such as pan frying or grilling. To emphasise these hazards here might be undue.:Ankh.Morpork 14:03, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Smoking, if done even remotely properly, will never result in food that is slightly burnt, as the meat is slow cooked and is not directly exposed to the heat source. That sounds a lot more like charbroiling. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:46, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

It is always very difficult to accurately assess medical opinion on a specific issue without being aware of all the relevant studies and their exact parameters. Apart from my reservations expressed above, I am not convinced that citing the findings of an individual study is the best way to sum up the health risk associated with smoked food.Ankh.Morpork 16:55, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Good points. That's why I tried to include studies on both sides of the issue to highlight the controversy over supposed cancer risks. Thoughts?Npmurf (talk) 20:14, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

The article contains a strong pejorative statement (""The smoking of food directly with wood smoke is known to contaminate the food with carcinogenic polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons." ) that over-simplifies the science backing it up to the point of inaccuracy. The disease mechanism presumed by the reference does not reflect the more complex mechanism revealed by subsequent research. The Fritz & Soós epidemialogical study cited to support the pejorative statement reports an elevated cancer risk in a specific Hungarian province associated with foods smoked in individual homes using softwoods. In the context of food smoking the term softwood is used to refer to wood from a conifer and hardwood is used to refer to wood from a deciduous tree. Softwood is generally regarded as the source of less desirable and bitter flavors, presumed traceable to the pitch known to produce the carcinogens. Fritz et. al. note concentrations of the undesirable chemicals an order of magnitude greater than foods smoked elsewhere, generally using hardwood and a 40% greater rate of stomach cancer. Fritz etc presumes a direct link between exposure and cancer rate based on the understanding available at the time. A 2012 paper described a particular cytochrome produced in the gut that detoxifies polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, and that its rate of production was dependent on intestinal bacteria. The pejorative statement needs to be modified to a less aggressive generalization allowing for the unclear applicability of the study given the more recent science modifying its basic premise and the underlying problem in that it derives a sweeping conclusion from an atypical data set not clearly representative of the broad population. — Preceding unsigned comment added by PolychromePlatypus (talk • contribs)

For the moment I've tagged that statement as disputed. If we can't determine the validity of that claim it should be removed from the article, or the relvant contradicting evidence should be presented as well. . Beeblebrox (talk) 22:34, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

I agree with the "disputed" tag. I've looked at the published summaries of a couple more recent reports (the report cited in the entry appears to be from 1980) making similar claims, but the research methods are mushy, at best. For instance, a report in the January 2017 issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute regarding breast cancer survival and grilled and smoked meat consumption depended on the study subjects self reporting personal estimates of such intake over lifetime and subsequent five-year periods. There was no mention of other variables, such as total red meat consumption or tobacco use, weight ratio, income level, race, age, location or other potential factors. Given the lower probability of non-controversial science research--especially that required to prove a negative--garnering headlines, I get a definite feel that this may be another case of "Living causes cancer." Zanski (talk) 18:42, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

References

Smoking food in Asia and Africa

Smoking fish is common in some parts of Nigeria. by Menakhem Ben-Yami And smoking flying fish and pork is a tradition among the Yami people in Taiwan. "Light pavilions for summer chatting and sleeping, or sheds for cleaning and smoking fish, were erected above""Also, using bottles and absorbent powders, the kids learn why the Tao people must smoke flying fish in their own homes" Komitsuki (talk) 15:10, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

There's also a tradition of smoking tunas in the Maldives in the Indian Ocean. Komitsuki (talk) 09:55, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

There's also a report that some Africans eat smoked fish in peanut sauce with atapa. Komitsuki (talk) 13:18, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Bad ISBN

Because it is causing a Checkwiki error #70: "ISBN with wrong length", I removed the ISBN from the entry:

Luhr Jensen Smokehouse page 6, ISBN 049762205674

We need more bibliographical information (e.g. exact title, is it a book or an instruction manual for a product or...) to find the correct ISBN or WorldCat id. Knife-in-the-drawer (talk) 14:35, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I'll go get from my kitchen and check it. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:31, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't have good news. It appears the cover has come off of it and I can't find the ISBN number anywhere now. It is both an instruction manual and a cookbook, it says it is actually published by Luhr Jensen,, who manufacture electric smokers. The full title is "Luhr Jensen Smokehouse Recipies and Operating Instructions" copyright by Luhr Jensen and Sons INC, 2004. It's an intersting little booklet, they would have you smoking nearly everything, including pasta, beans, lentils, breadcrumbs, eggs, popcorn, and so on. They do hav a website, perhaps it has the proper ISBN. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:39, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Well, crap. It looks like they no longer have their own website as they have been bought out by another company and mostly make fishing lures now. I can't seem to find info about this booklet at all, but it does exist, I have it in my hands right now. Beeblebrox (talk) 21:43, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Sounds like this one: http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/smokers/876628001503.aspx#FullDescription

- and here it is for those in the UK - https://www.amazon.co.uk/SMOKEHOUSE-PRODUCTS-INC-9990-000-0000-SMOKER/dp/B000ZKW35U

- doesn't look like it has an ISBN, not an uncommon event with company publications like this. Emartuk (talk) 13:43, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

Emartuk (talk) 13:40, 1 October 2016 (UTC)