Talk:Smbat I Hetumian

Disambig note

Okay, I'm going to argue this one.  :) I think the article should include a disambig note, because there's a lot of confusion about Sempad. The name is spelled in many different ways in various historical literature, and there were two very significant "Sempads" in Cilicia, right around the same time. I know that in my own reading, I was constantly getting these two confused, and it took me a long time to realize that they weren't the same person. I think that some kind of indicator that there are two Sempads with different roles, should definitely be included in both articles, to help reduce future confusion. --Elonka 05:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

I understand the hatnote here, since the ambiguous "Sempad of Armenia" and "Smpad of Armenia" redirect here. Sempad (with redirect from Smpad) is a dab page, as is Smbat. I removed the hatnote from Sempad the Constable because there is no way that you could get to that article when you should have gotten or wanted to get elsewhere. I actually know the policy guideline I had in mind: WP:NAMB. Do you still think it is possible for confusion? Srnec (talk) 01:37, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Very much so. Because we're getting people to the page, not just from other internal wiki pages, but also from outside Google searches. I think it is very possible that someone might read about "Sempad the Constable" in a history book, but then get confused as to whether "Sempad the Constable" and "Sempad, King of Armenia" were the same person. I do understand about WP:NAMB, but I think that this is a more extreme case than that. We're not talking about the difference between a botanical tree and a mathematical tree, we're talking about the difference between two Armenian nobles with the same name, who lived in the same century. I think that's a situation ripe for confusion.

I still feel very strongly that we should include a detailed note, indicating the difference between the monarch and the historian. But if you're still against that, then as a compromise, how about just adding a note to both pages that said, "For other uses, see Sempad"? Normally I wouldn't do that because disambigs are usually just for cases where there are three or more confusing terms. In the cases where there are just two, practice is normally to link to each page from the other one. But as a compromise, I'd be happy with an "otheruses" template. I just feel very strongly that we need to include something on the page that indicates that there may be possible confusion. For quite awhile, I myself was confused by the different Sempads. I assumed that it was sort of like one of the Hethoums, where he was King for awhile, but he wasn't always King, and so he got called something else in his "non-king" state. I figured that "Sempad the Constable" was a term like "Prince Sempad," before he became "King Sempad". And yes, I'm straightened out on that now, but if I was confused, other readers will probably be confused too, so I'd like to see what we could do to prevent that. --Elonka 02:37, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd prefer a minimal note, not a detailed one, if we have to have one. That said, I guess I see the possibility of confusion arising from a different angle. I think that if you add a dabnote to an article entitled "Sempad the Constable" you're liable to make people think the king was also called that. Which is precisely the confusion! I think that the articles clearly describe two different persons and that will fix any confusion. I understand if reading the literature causes confusion, but I don't think the encyclopaedia is the same. I won't remove a hatnote if you add one, but I may reword it to make sure that it doesn't confuse the reader into thinking both Sempads were constable and king. (A dabnote directing readers to Lothair of France from Lothair I causes confusion, because the reader then believes either that Lothair I was also a king of France or that Lothair of France is often called "Lothair I" or both.) Srnec (talk) 03:33, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Sure, feel free to tweak wording. I don't care that much about how we say it, as long as we provide a link from each page, that directs readers to the other one. I know that when I first started this, I thought there was only one famous Cilician Sempad, so if I was reading about "Sempad, King of Armenia", I would have naturally assumed that he was also the Constable, and that it was just another title that he held at some other point in his career. --Elonka 05:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)