Talk:Slash's Snakepit/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: AIRcorn (talk) 07:42, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

Criteria

one DAB Pride & Glory no dead links

It is reasonably well written.
a (prose): ? b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): ✓ Pass
Some run on sentences and a few that could be made clearer, but overall not too bad (see comments). There are a few extra wikilinks, Allmusic is linked three times in the body, but most things that should be linked are and none that shouldn't.
It is factually accurate and verifiable.
a (references): ✓ Pass b (citations to reliable sources): ? c (OR): ✓ Pass
I was a little concerned about a few refs (AllMusic is used a lot and MusicRadars wikipedia page says it is a social networking site as well as a news source). Digging a little it appears AllMusic is fine for biographic information Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 24#Are allmusic.com, punkbands.com, www.roomthirteen.com etc. reliable sources for asserting notability of rock bands? and the other cites are to pretty uncontroversial information (one exception in comments). I will get "Slash" from the library this weekend to double check its cites. There are some cases of WP:OVERCITE and personally I think it looks a little messy to have so many cites in the middle of a sentence. For example, for the sentence Slash's Snakepit's music was often described as hard rock^[4][30][39] and blues rock^[4][16][30] with elements of southern rock.^[16][20] I would cite the end of the sentence with a note and then expand on the information and use references in the note. This is not a requirement for GA though so is not necessary to pass.
It is broad in its coverage.
a (major aspects): ✓ Pass b (focused): ?
Seems to cover everything for a standard band biography. Would be interested in some more information why the disbanded the second time and am not quite sure how the "The Spaghetti Incident?" fits in.
It follows the neutral point of view policy.
Fair representation without bias: ✓ Pass
Positive and negative reviews provided and balanced.
It is stable.
No edit wars, etc.: ✓ Pass
Nothing much going on here
It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions): ✓ Pass
One non-free image with rational provided. Shame there aren't more. The music samples seem fine too.
Overall:
Pass/Fail:

Comments

Lead

For the tour in support, Slash enlisted James LoMenzo and Brian Tichy, of Pride and Glory, in place of Inez and Sorum who had other commitments. Tour in support of what? Maybe in support of the album or even the supporting tour?
Slash's Snakepit toured the US, Europe, Japan and Australia before Geffen pulled their financial support for the tour, with Slash returning to Guns N' Roses and Slash's Snakepit disbanding. Wikilink Geffen (maybe use Geffen Records so it cannot be confused with Mr Geffen). Is it possible to reword that sentence slightly, tour is mentioned twice and so is Slash's Snakepit.
The new lineup consisted of Slash, Griparic, singer Rod Jackson as well as former Alice Cooper solo band members Ryan Roxie on guitar and Matt Laug on drums. Alice Cooper solo band members? I know what is meant here, but it would not be clear for some people.

Unsure how to re-word this to make it clear. Perhaps a second sentence like "..singer Rod Jackson. Guitarist Ryan Roxie and drummer Matt Laug, both former members of Alice Cooper's solo band, completed the lineup." ?

Works for me. AIRcorn (talk) 09:32, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I probably put you crook there. I reworded it slightly to remove the repeated mention of lineup. Feel free to revert or improve. AIRcorn (talk) 08:29, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

However, after the final show, Slash's Snakepit disbanded. Any information why?

History

~~Formation (1993–1994) It would be good to introduce each member with their position in the band. Matt Sorum, Gilby Clarke and Duff McKagan roles are not made clear.~~
The second paragraph is fragmented. It starts with information about The Spaghetti Incident and then going into the snakepit demos with no obvious link. Currently the relevance of the Spaghetti incident sentences to this article are not clear.
The decision to record with Dover led to a disagreement between Slash and Sorum, due to Slash not seeking Sorum's approval. This needs some more information.
Slash and Dover wrote the lyrics to all twelve songs with Slash using the songwriting to vent his frustrations. What was he frustrated at?
The album featured contributions by Duff McKagan, co-writing "Beggars & Hangers-On," Dizzy Reed on keyboards, Teddy Andreadis on harmonica, and Paulinho da Costa on percussion. "who co-wrote "Beggars & Hangers-On"," and would consider putting it in brackets as it is an overload of commas at the moment.
~~'Slash's brother, Ash Hudson, also designed the album's cover Also not needed as Ash has not been mentioned previously~~

He may not have been mentioned, but neither has a few others. I feel this should be kept, he may state it was a band but it is a Slash project and a contribution by his brother should be mentioned. Easilly removed if you disagree.

Sorry for not being clear; I meant just the "also". Basically "Slash's brother, Ash Hudson, designed the album's cover". AIRcorn (talk) 10:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah ok, removed "also". HrZ (talk) 09:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It's Five O'Clock Somewhere went on to sell over a million copies and was certified platinum by the RIAA. Spell out RIAA
"Beggars & Hangers-On" was released as the first, and only, single from the album while they also shot music videos. Run on sentence
Allmusic reviewer Stephen Thomas Erlewine called Slash's contributions "quite amazing", though criticised the song-writing, claiming "it's too bad that nobody in the band bothered to write any songs." Avoid using claiming WP:SAY
Following his departure, Slash toured Japan for two weeks with Chic, and worked on the soundtrack to the film Curdled before touring in a cover band that eventually became Slash's Blues Ball. I would consider breaking this sentence up. The cover band is the theme of this section and should probably be introduced as its own sentence as opposed to being tacked onto the end of another one. "Before" is quite ambiguous, is there a more exact date (or even month/year) that could be used for the formation of the Blues Ball.
Jon Stevens of Noiseworks, who had been recording with Slash, was explored as a potential singer in early 1998. explored?

Sorry, can't find anything else about how he was explored.

More wondering whether explored is the correct term to use. I think of exploring countries, not really people. Not a big deal though. AIRcorn (talk) 10:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps it can be changed to "...was seen as a potential singer in early 1998" or just "...was a potential singer in early 1998" ? I don't agree with "explored" either, but it was just was the source said. HrZ (talk) 09:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Prefer "seen as a potential singer" personally. AIRcorn (talk) 12:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Completing the lineup were guitarist Ryan Roxie, formerly of Alice Cooper, and drummer Matt Laug, also from Alice Cooper and Venice Consider saying "the band Venice". I am not sure it is well known enough to be obvious (certainly not as well known as Alice Cooper) and it could be construed that Laug is from Venice, Italy.
They began rehearsing at Mate's before rehearsing and recording in Slash's new home studio in Beverly Hills. Who is Mate?
Though a release date was set for February 22, 2000, Slash left Geffen, who had folded into Interscope Records, due to how the label dealt with him and the album. Left hanging here. How did the label deal with them. Is it just about pulling financial support previously or is their more.
Rob Sheffield of Rolling Stone noted that "there's nothing here as inspiring as the debut's Zen pinball meditation "Be the Ball" and "that great guitarists need great bands, and the Snakepit dudes are barely functional backup peons." Needs another " after Ball to end the quote and ... should probably be after peons as the quote does not end there. I am not sure about the first quote. It would make more sense if "Be the Ball" was mentioned earlier.
~~Due to this, Slash's Snakepit pulling out of supporting AC/DC in March 2001~~

Missed this. Probably just needs to be changed to pulled. AIRcorn (talk) 10:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done HrZ (talk) 09:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Following the tour, Slash disbanded Slash's Snakepit in an announcement made in early 2002. As with the lead - any more information why?
Following the breakup of Slash's Snakepit, Slash announced he was to begin working on a solo album[47] before working with The Black Crowes drummer Steve Gorman and an unnamed bassist on a new project: Confusing sentence and is the colon necessary?

Can you clarify on why it is confusing? It is there to state what he did following the breakup of the band.

Don't worry about it. Now that I read it again it makes more sense. I think the "following", "begin" and "before" in one sentence confused me as to the order of events.

That can be clarified a bit more. Announcing he was recording a solo album and then working with Steve Gorman all happened in the same year. Could change it to "Slash announced he was to begin working on a solo album in 2002. However, he later began working with [...] on a new project the same year" if that helps at all? HrZ (talk) 09:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If he never did his Solo album maybe chage "however" to "Instead he later worked with....". There are possibly too many sentences already that begin with however. AIRcorn (talk) 12:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

He later formed the hard rock supergroup Velvet Revolver with his former Guns N' Roses band mates Duff McKagan and Matt Sorum, former Wasted Youth guitarist Dave Kushner, and then-former Stone Temple Pilots singer Scott Weiland. I don't like way it says Slash formed Velvet Revolver. The source suggests that it was formed by Slash, McKagan and Sorum together. Is there another source that can be used instead. The Velvet revolver article might help.

Musical style

Rolling Stone reviewer J.D. Considine noted the differences between Guns N' Roses and Slash's Snakepit on their first album, It's Five O'Clock Somewhere stating that "Guns [N]' Roses typically treat the melody as the most important part of the song, most of what slithers out of the Snakepit emphasizes the playing." Can we expand on J.D. Would consider just saying "...Slash's Snakepit's first album, stating that..." to keep it more concise.

No luck with J.D.? AIRcorn (talk) 10:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

He actually has an article on Wikipedia but I still couldn't find his full name. HrZ (talk) 09:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I did a quick google search myself [1] and it appears he goes by the name J.D.. I guess common name means that is what we use. AIRcorn (talk) 12:55, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The riff to "Good to Be Alive" drew a comparison to Chuck Berry[16] while the musicianship on the album was praised.[16] There are two cites to reference 16 close together within the same sentence; it would look neater if it was just included at the end of the sentence.

Ok. Some fairly straight forward changes, some I may have to get some assistance on. However, I have to question "It would be good to introduce each member with their position in the band." The point of the Formation section is to show how this band came together, to introduce all the members then go on to show how they formed wouldn't look right to me. Perhaps clarifying the lineup before the end of the section? Also might need a week to make these changes, is that ok? Thanks. HrZ (talk) 14:15, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no deadline and as long as work is being done and it doesn't become too ridiculous we can wait. I should point out that every comment is negotiable, some more so than others. If you provide a good reason, or the information simple does not exist or is not easily accessible, some can be overlooked. Also if you need clarification on any point just leave a comment under it. Let me know when something has been addressed and I will strike the points as we reach an agreement. AIRcorn (talk) 01:08, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The reason I commented about the formation was that as I was reading it some members were being introduced and I had no idea of their roles. For example it says ...band mate Matt Sorum on the demos, before Gilby Clarke and Alice in Chains bassist Mike Inez.. where Mike Inez is identified as a bassist, but the roles of Sorum and Clarke will not be clear for anyone unfamiliar with the band. I think I may not have made myself clear and did not mean the section should open listing the members. For example with the above sentence, band mate could easily be changed to drummer and guitarist added before Gilby. That way their role is displayed, but it should not impede the format showing how they informed. I feel in a band article it is important to make the roles of the individuals clear as this is vital information. AIRcorn (talk) 01:08, 2 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's fair enough, I reckon I can get most of the changes done in a day or two. And I see your point about their roles and will make those changes. I know there may be a few points I cannot expand upon in article due to lack of resources, but I will inform you of them once I've got through the bulk of the fixes! HrZ (talk) 12:48, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Think I fixed most of the article. Posted some comments above about certain issues. Removed The Spaghetti Incident? lead in the second paragraph. Reason I think I included it was because, with Clarke being fired after recording the album, he was able to be a full-time member while Sorum returned to Guns N' Roses before Slash's Snakepit toured. Obviously, I didn't work that in at all. Just a matter of stating why they disbanded, which I know is in the book, but it will have to wait utill Monday. I'll be away until then. HrZ (talk) 11:53, 4 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I think that's the issues dealt with. Anything that's been missed? HrZ (talk) 12:35, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Second read through

Looking good. I am fixing a few minor things as I go through the article. Feel free to revert or improve on the changes. I feel there is an excessive use of comma in some sentences, which can make it difficult to read (see MOS:COMMA and examples below).

Slash worked with Guns N' Roses band mate, and drummer, Matt Sorum on the demos, before guitarist Gilby Clarke and Alice in Chains bassist Mike Inez joined them, jamming and recording most nights Not sure "and drummer" needs to be in commmas and it could be reworded to "...joined them in jamming and..." to remove the last one
By 1994, they had recorded twelve songs, whilst Guns N' Roses went on hiatus that same year. Could be reworded to "They had recorded twelve songs by 1994, the year that Guns N' Roses went on hiatus.

Those were the worst ones that I found that. I think this is close to passing, just a few minor nitpicks. AIRcorn (talk) 10:40, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've fixed those to instances, I'll comb the article for more in a wee bit. GRAPPLE X 20:47, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Did some of the minor changes mentioned before also. HrZ (talk) 09:56, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I am happy to pass this as it is now. I have enjoyed working with you on the review. Feel free to make the last few suggestions if you feel it would improve the article further. AIRcorn (talk) 13:01, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Great! Thank you, I went ahead and made those changes mentioned just before you passed. Good working with you also. HrZ (talk) 13:15, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]