Talk:Skytone Alpha-400

== Windows XP on XScale ==

It's highly dubious that Windows XP runs on on XScale. Windows CE might, but not Windows XP. The cited source is probably mistaken. Windows XP is not on XScale. --KJRehberg (talk) 04:49, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

it is not only dubious, it is certain that Windows does NOT run an an Xscale ARM processor. However the manufacturer of the devices that claim to run Windows XP and Vista on these devices do not use the Xscale, or for that matter the original Chinese MIPS processor. Instead they use several types of x86 based processors, from a very simple "system on a chip" X86 processor to the normal VIA and Intel processors that other netbooks also use. In the process they are throwing away the most cost and energy efficient part of the design, in order to be able to offer Windows, not to mention they need to increase RAM by at least doubling it for Windows XP or increasing it some eight-fold or so to be able to run Vista, and they need much more storage space (NAND-Flash) with all this in place they probably also need to increase their battery capacity (and thus size) the same, and they will need to add some kind of ventilation for the increased heat emission of the x86 processors. But for the moment the x86 versions are not even out, let alone there is an indication of what the prices will be, but no doubt they will double too. Mahjongg (talk) 14:29, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

There is a XP version, see here http://www.exon-technology.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage_noname&product_id=120&category_id=55&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=55 But it defo doesn't have a Xscale CPU in there --79.78.206.188 (talk) 02:37, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but is uses neither the original MIPS processor, nor the ARM (Xscale) processor, but uses a very simple x86 "system on a chip" processor, the "PDX-600 x86". As you need some sort of x86 processor to run Windows. the PDX-600 x86 is one of the very few x86 compatible chips meant for imbedded industrial systems. Its a relatively expensive solution compared to similar non x86 embedded SoC's. Mahjongg (talk) 11:02, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Image

I am looking for a free image of this device. If someone can help, please do so!--Kozuch (talk) 18:07, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Please only discuss the MIPS Laptop here

The end of the Alternative Names section Mentions that there are also other versions which apparently use the same body but a totally different CPU Architecture (XScale ARM, Vortex86 x86) - those are imho separate devices which should be discussed in a separate article, of course there should be a notice that devices with the same body come with totaly different internals - An issue however is the Lemma. How to call these Articles? Are those devices really produced by Skytone altogether? Things get quiet confusing here, could someone with a bit more information please separate the articles in a sensible way? 78.52.135.221 (talk) 17:38, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I don't know who made up the ARM version, but I could find no indict or whatsoever that this device is available with an ARM CPU^{there is a arm version indeed - shame on me. But some references could have done well here} - Seems like there is only the Jz4730/Jz4740 (some devices said they feature a 360MHz CPU which would be the later one, however, most of the vendors claim that the CPU is clocked at 400MHz which is not true. Devices which popped up here in Europe/Germany came with a 336MHz CPU - the Jz4730. (according to cpuinfo) Than there is the Vortex86 one, that's an Intel 486DX compatible chip clocked at 1GHz, this seems to be the 'better version' of the device, it comes with an XGI Z9s 2D GPU. The Vortex86DX and the PDX-600 only differ in the number and avaliability of serial ports, servo controllers, etc - the 'real' Vortex86DX comes with additional industrial features, but when it comes to performance, it's the same as the PDX-600. [1]

Exon itself claims they now have a (Linux) version the PC701-LX (which seems to have succeeded the Alpha-400) that uses the Intel XScale 32-bit Multimedia Application Processor at 416MHz [2] and their webpage no longer mentions the Alpha-400. They also claim this version now runs Flash (and You-tube), which makes sense because they have more easy access to Linux code bases, as there is much more ARM linux code than MIPS linux code. Their Windows CE system (the PC701-CE)still uses MIPS, and their Windows XP version uses the (very slow, because it uses a x486 core, not a Pentium or later) "PDX-600 x86 32-bit 1GHz CPU (or equivalent)". The Linux version is still by far the cheapest one, and the only one that seems to be a true successor to the Alpha-400. Mahjongg (talk) 15:20, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

The Vortex86 is a i586, maybe i686 CPU, the confusion about being a 486DX clone may be because the Vortex86DX comes with a FPU and the Vortex86SX without one - like the 486DX/SX did. I however don't know anything about it's speed.
I don't know why there should be significantly more linux software for arm than for mips mips - neither of them has official Adobe Flash support (that's a problem for the iPhone as well) - the Arm, however, might be faster than the mips. --Mewtu (talk) 23:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I was under the impression that only the newer Vortex86MX was comparable (speedwise) to a pentium, but that the DX due to lack of cashing etc performed somewhat worse, but its very difficult to make any comparisons of such a rarely used processor with newer processors like the Atom, still as an embedded systems processor I expect the DX to perform much slower than an atom. I was also under the impression that much less Linux software has been ported to MIPS than to ARM, and that many more (embedded)) linux systems use the ARM architecture than MIPS, but I may be wrong, you are right that Flash is only officially available for X86 systems, but still Exon claims their latest Linux system is able to show YouTube Video's, maybe they make use of Gnash and/or other open source software, (VLC media player) their Alpha-400 systems were already able to run .SWF files, although not inside the browser. Maybe they have found a way to run (some) YouTube content FLV . Although I don't know how they could. We need independent conformation that the PC701-LX is indeed capable of this feat. Mahjongg (talk) 01:13, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

P.S. I tried to find some benchmark information on the Vortex86DX, and found this [3] which claims this CPU has dramatically poor performance for a x86 processor, its listed as the processor for the "Koala nano33". In this benchmark, and it has just about double the speed of an old Pentium 2 based system, that is just a few percent of a modern (atom based) x86 system, even a comparatively slow i.MX31 (ARM) processor is four times as fast according to this benchmark. The Xscale used for Linux, (probably a PXA272) is, (with its ca 800 Mips) even a little faster than the i.MX31 with its typical 740 Mips. See ARM architecture. I hope someone else has done more thorough testing. Mahjongg (talk) 11:09, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Exon - Original Design Manufactorer?

I thought Exon was just another OEM and Skytone is the ODM - or someone completely different. What gives you the hint that Exon is the original one? Mewtu (talk) 00:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I have opened the Alpha before and can tell you that the PCB is stamped with Skytone's name. That leads me to believe Skytone is indeed the ODM. Giodtech (talk) 06:14, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mewtu (talk • contribs) 17:54, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The FCC database entry for the Skytone Alpha 400 (FCC ID WMGALPHA400) points to the Sungworld SW-E700 (FCC ID WI3SW-E700). 188.195.204.24 (talk) 21:31, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Reducing Confusion

Ok, there is an ARM Version of such a device (uses the Jade Z228 SoC), but that's another Laptop - just as the Vortex86 Version is another laptop. So to get this straight: There the following three Versions:

• Ingetic Jz4730 - MIPSel (the issued Alpha 400)
• Jade Z228 - ARM
• DMP Vortex86 - x86

You can't write all them into the article about this device, as this device is the MIPS one. They don't differ that much in appearance but when it comes to internal values, they couldn't be more different - You wouldn't create an article about all Atom based netbooks together, but on the other hand, it would be much clearer to create something like wired 7" Netbooks from China, create 3 Sections and list the brand names they come as there.

The main problem is that the ARM and DMP models are not widely available. Once this happens however, we could proceed with an article each for each separate model, with an overview article pointing to the 3 specific articles. -- LoneRifle (talk) 15:06, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Some 'clearness': another ODM? - nice overview however (ok, they get the MIPS one wrong ;-) Or maybe there is really some 400MHz XScale Chip out there.. -- 62.180.145.73 (talk) 22:11, 11 April 2009 (UTC)

Merge to Subnetbook

I merged the three existing articles to the said one and added information about the other two 'versions' of the device. I don't feel that well about the lemma, however, I can't merge it to Skytone Alpha 400 as that's the MIPS version exclusively - and I'm not that sure any longer weather this name is more original than all the other ones. So if you feel anything from this article is missing in the new one, just put it there. Still, I feel Subnetbook is a bit too generic as it fits to a lot of other devises - so would it be sane to collect them there altogether if they don't have one or two common names for an own article? Duplication of knowledge usually leads to mistakes and disarray. Let's finish the merge. -- Mewtu (talk) 00:27, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

This article cannot be merged into Subnetbook, as that is a generic term, and the article (mainly) describes a specific device. The best action may be to purge this article of all the variations that make it not a pure Skytone Alpha-400 (or re-branded version of it), and move the purged material to Subnetbook (which by the way seems a term made up for this use, or is it?). Mahjongg (talk) 22:38, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the term Subnetbook was basically made up, it was only used by some people in some forum discussions so far (to express the contrast to 'normal' Netbooks which soon got bigger and more powerful and expansive), that's why I don't feel that comfortable about the lemma. Given this rough definition, the Elonex ONE would also be classified as Subnetbook.
The 'pure Skytone Alpha-400' is another thing hard to accomplish when doing a summary. OEMs may use various sizes of Flash (1/2GB, if they'r stingy they could probably solder a 512MB chip as well) and Ram, some even installed Windows CE (what a shame) - that however wouldn't be a pure Skytone Alpha-400. But as they use a SoC design the rest of the hardware remains the same. To make thinks more complicated, they have like two bodies, they use for all three CPU versions (at least it seems so, there are), a black+somecolor (mostly silver) and a unicolored one with slightly different layout (horizontal instead of vertical mouse keys). I'm not even sure weather the Skytone thing is any more original than all these other brand names, some Exon guy at least claims to be the ODM in a comment - there they announce XScale version, which is the ARM core thing, and the PDX-600 x86 version with Windows XP. --Mewtu (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:19, 16 April 2009 (UTC).

The content related to Alpha-400 or its clones should go to this article. I hear "subnetbook" for the first time. You should reference the term if you can...--Kozuch (talk) 14:43, 17 April 2009 (UTC)

What about a more generic Skytone article? The different versions could go there. --Mewtu (talk) 00:15, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Was thinking about this yesterday too. Finally, there is the Alpha-680 comming, we could rename this article to Alpha only and list both.--Kozuch (talk) 06:56, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

My take on all of this. Please don't merge this article with anything. Let this article stand as is for the Alpha 400 as there are umpteen versions of this system. The new iUnika gyy, for example, offers a biodegradable case and an optional solar charging system with the solar panel built into the cover. There is enough to write about with mixing in systems with different processors and substantially different architecture. The Elonex One article should not be merged into this one for just that reason. OTOH, all variations based on the SkyTone Alpha 400 platform do belong here. Caitlynmaire (talk) 19:32, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Android on Skytone alpha?

There is now a port of Android to the 32bit-MIPS architecture, [4] this might mean that in the future a version of the Skytone Alpha might run the Android OS. It would be a nice fit to the hardware, as Android needs little memory to work, on the HTC Dream (googlePhone) it needs just 256 MB of NAND flash, and 128MB of SDRAM. Mahjongg (talk) 16:22, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Well, if you look around on the Ingenic ftp server, you might stumble across this --Mewtu (talk) 21:45, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

OpenWRT on Jz47xx

OpenWRT and Linux 2.6.31 have been ported to the SoC - OpenWRT-x-burst -Mewtu (talk) 18:00, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Well, the port is for the ben NanoNote, a simmilar device, the uImage however is not working with the skytone device. -19:28, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

This article reads like an advertisement

$130 is a great price for a computer, but it is not notable as a basis for inclusion in an encyclopedia soly for that purpose. So I have added the advertisement template hoping to make it's low cost a once-stated fact, and not a repeating sound bite. The advertising tone is throughout, but I enumerate the most disconcerting observations. Please note that Talk:Netbook#MIPS_subsection_removal is part of this discussion.

• total of one significant link on Wikipedia at List of Linux-based devices, where it is done correctly: the cost is simply stated and does not attempt shape the reader's opinion with opinionated qualifications.

• The link to Skytone Alpha-400 at Talk:Netbook#MIPS_subsection_removal reads like an advertisement. This queued me.

• The tone of Skytone Alpha-400 can be felt in the following quotes from the page:
  • "a very low cost computer for children" (lead section)
  • "child friendly pictures" (Whatever those might be is not explained, just stated as an opinion, not a fact) (See WP:POV)
  • "processor uses only 0.2 W of power" (The term only is debatable. Where are the comparison facts?

• User_talk:75.117.11.132 indicates that Skytone_Alpha-400 was involved in a spam-bot incident. This is because the triumvirate Bestlink Electronics Elonex ONEt and Skytone Alpha-400 should be merged as proposed by other Wikipedians instead of spread out like a repeating sound bite of one another's commercial products. The spam bot found they had been playing off one another like they were spamming one another. They were not. They are the same article and they have an advertising tone to them.

• Mahjongg seem to be a connection between the Netbook article (one of only two significant links to Skytone) and Skytone itself, busy on both pages. In the Netbooks article, their wording has been the one offensive to my sense of neutrality. For example, after their clean up the Netbook article's MIPS section about the Skytone product, I had to change wording "very cheap" and "not comparable" to the more neutral terms "relatively inexpensive" (a fact indeed) and "compares unfavorably".

Sorry but your edit remarks " the article repeatedly links to Netbook#MIPS_architecture saying " at very low cost." " sounded absurd to me, and factually incaccurate, and when looking at your edits I discovered that you had also removed text in netbook, in essence you removed the single reference the MIPS section had, so I added a new one not related to the Skytone. I still don't understand what your argument that the article links too much to Netbook#MIPS_architecture saying " at very low cost." means.... please explain. Oh, and how exactly were we "forcing" you to change wording "very cheap" and "not comparable" to the more neutral terms "relatively inexpensive", I don't remember demanding anthing from you?

To "defend" the articles "tone" you have to remind yourself that indeed compared to other netbooks, the Skytone alpha was released with an absurd low price, (and performance) less than the "magical" $100 (as was the promised price for the OLPC). The "for children" comment is because the makers obviously had in mind the marked for a "throw away starter computer" (for kids, as the second or third computer in the house), and one thing that show this is that there are two "desktop themes" for the system, one for adults, and one for children. The Alpha-400 has such a low performance/low power processor that it has tiny batteries compared to normal laptops, and does not have any ventilation holes to speak of. Technical facts about power consumption are on the website of the manufacturor. The Alpha-400 is not (mainly) notable because of its price, but because it shows an emerging willingness to try new approaches, away from the old wintel paradigm. Mahjongg (talk) 01:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

You certainly deserve a remark. You are definitely worth all the time you ask for. Here it is: look at the MIPS of Netbook wikitext. It says "at very low cost". It's just commented out. Specifically, the history shows "The netbook brand Skytone Alpha 400 features a MIPS architecture CPU—the 64-bit Loongson that is capable of about 400 million instructions per second, at very low cost." 12:42, 16 September 2009 Cpiral (talk | contribs) (32,632 bytes) (→MIPS architecture: this is an advertisement. This is the second removal.)And then there's: 14:43, 6 August 2009 Cpiral (talk | contribs) (27,784 bytes) (changed section heading titles, added MIPS section back without the advertisement in it) 19:56, 1 August 2009 Cpiral (talk | contribs) (27,484 bytes) (remove MIPS section, as it was an advertisement, see the talk section 18) (undo). And the talk section is still there, section 18 "MIPS subsection removal" with no comment. Hmmm.

Heroic people like OLPC's Nicholas Negroponte, and Wikipedia's (Jimmy Wales who strive for global good tidings, they get my vote and my time.

OK, now I see why the reference to children in the article. There's the adult theme, then there's the children's theme. Kinda like OLPC theme, eh? I get it now. It all sounds like such an advertisement. I've started reforming it, so someone will one day wonder why it has

and, judge it not to be so. Sincerely CpiralCpiral 01:24, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

IUNIKA Gyy

The IUNIKA Gyy is a similar machine but has nothing to do with Skytone. Moved the references to IUnika.

--Olea (talk) 15:09, 22 July 2010 (UTC)