Talk:Skyman (Columbia Comics)

Fair use rationale for Image:Skyman1.gif

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BetacommandBot 09:59, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

Title

Wikipedia MOS is clear about use of the definite article "The" in character-name titled articles. The first comic was titled The Skyman but ACE Comics' reprint is Return of the Skyman with lowercase "t", indicating the "t" was capped in the first instance only since it was at the beginning of the series title. DC's 1970s comics was title The Joker (see here) but we still title his article Joker (comics).

Moreover, it is simply "Skyman" here at the Golden Age Heroes Directory, here at the Grand Comics Database and at other third-party sources.

Additionally, we discuss articles before moving them if there's any issue regarding a movie. This encyclopedia is a collaboration, and we don't simply make decisions of this caliber unilaterally.--Tenebrae (talk) 13:24, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, let's discuss it. Taking your points one by one:

1. "The Skyman" is the more accurate title, regardless of usage elsewhere. MOS states that "The" should not be used "unless by convention it is an inseparable part of a name (The Hague) or it is part of the title of a work (A Clockwork Orange, The Tonight Show with Conan O'Brien)". Such is the case here. The fact that convention has led to The Joker's article being incorrectly titled (The Joker article was created at a time when "The" was practically banned from article titles, unlike today) should not be a reason not to correct this one. Unlike Batman, who went by both "Batman" and "The Batman", this character was always "The Skyman".
2. Your link is not a good example. While it does list several characters with a "The" prefix, it also lists a high profile character like The Shadow as "Shadow". Give me some other third party sources, particularly contemporary ones.
3. We most certainly do make decisions of this caliber unilaterally. It's called "being bold", when no issue is apparent. To my mind, there should be no issue regarding this move, though we obviously disagree. Rhindle The Red (talk) 17:09, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Rhindle. I appreciate the discussion. "The Skyman" doesn't seem to be part of a formal name like The Hague, any more than the Hulk, the Joker, the Lone Ranger, the Green Hornet, the spirit and many other examples.

The Shadow is not actually a good example. That Wikipedia article is not about the character but, as the lead sentence states: "The Shadow is a collection of serialized dramas...." This is also true of The Phantom: The Phantom is an American adventure comic strip...."

Given all those examples and many others, it's inaccurate to say Joker (comics) is "incorrectly titled" based on a presumption there was "a time when 'The' was practically banned from article titles, unlike today"; I'm not aware of the MOS having changed on this.

I gave two third-party sources for "the Skyman" or just "Skyman", and here are others:

• historian Dark Markstein [1];
• the book The THUNDER Agents Companion from comics specialist TwoMorrows Publishing, on page 104;
• the book From the Lower East Side to Hollywood: Jews in American Popular Culture by Paul Buhle, page 110;
• comics historian Mike Benton's The Comic Book in America: An illustrated History, page 29;
• and comics historian Mike Conroy's 500 Great Comicbook Action Heroes, page 22.

I honestly don't mean to pile on with all these Internet and print references, and there are several more one could add. We both want the same thing in good faith: that Wikipedia be as accurate as possible as verified with reliable third-party sourcing. I hope these help. --Tenebrae (talk) 17:31, 14 July 2013 (UTC)