Talk:Skip (curling)

List of Skips

This article looks more like a list of famous skips than an article on the definition of a skip. Should it be separated into two articles (one for "skip" and one for "list of skips")?--Peacock28 (talk) 23:51, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't think the list is needed at all. I would have thought a list of players would be quite adequate. I am particularly suspicious of the increase in numbers as time goes on. Which 3 skips of the 2000s is as notable as the 3 from the 1920s for example? I also note these people do not appear in a category for skips. Op47 (talk) 16:25, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm going to move the list of skips to one of my userpages, since I don't think it's necessary here, seeing as the article should be based on the position of skip. I'm not sure whether or not the list is needed, but if it is, then we can just move it wherever we need it. Prayerfortheworld (talk) 18:14, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Fifth comes in to skip

Rick Patzke said that replacing skip John Shuster with fifth Chris Plys at 2010 Olympics was "not unprecedented" [1]. What were these earlier precedents at high level competition? More references for this particular substitution: [2] --CurlingClips (talk) 17:36, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

Later example: Amber Holland subs for Sherry Anderson at 2021 Scotties. [3] -- CurlingClips (talk) 13:54, 20 June 2021 (UTC)

More examples from Team Scotland: Lauren Gray-Sophie Jackson in 2019. There's also Karen Addison in 2008 (see official WCF records for reference, there's also Munro v Brown case in Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service). Note that in 2008 case, Karen Addison was originally the second, not the fifth. -- CurlingClips (talk) 07:22, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Canadian perspective of the past (and still present?)

Not sure how to incorporate this, but apparently for decades Canada insisted that the skip is whomever throws fourth, regardless of who is calling the game [4] (e.g. 1978, Chernoff or Lukowich?). Apparently, even after CCA changed the rule in the 1970's to re-define the skip to fit the modern definition, Canadians still resisted and protested against it. I think even now there are remnants of this old school of thought ("skip stones", "skip's deuce", etc.). In fact, this article as of now is still framed by Template:Curling positions, which doesn't use the lead-second-third-fourth & skip + vice skip model. Occasionally, I still hear Canadian commentators saying things like "Nedohin, Alberta's third who throws skip stones" [5], when in WCF terms they would say "Nedohin, Alberta's vice and fourth thrower".

Third (curling) currently says "a third (alternatively, vice, vice-skip or mate)", and Vice (curling) redirects to Third (curling) which again shows that this perspective is still lingering to this day. (In modern WCF definition, the vice can be in any position, just as the skip can). -- CurlingClips (talk) 22:15, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

See also: Template talk:Curling positions. -- CurlingClips (talk) 18:43, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

I mean Ive played where our skip was the second or even the lead. I support creating a vice article instead of a redirect. I'll work on a draft. Signed, I Am Chaos (talk) 19:00, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

References

• "Definitely, Alberta day at the Brier". Winnipeg Free Press. March 10, 1978. Ed Lukowich throwing fourth stones, Chernoff calling the shots [...] Chernoff is acknowledged to be the team strategist the reason for Alberta's success this year. He denies the charge. "Eddie's the shooter on this he said around the cigar. "He's the one who put this rink together. He's the one who throws last rock and he's the real leader."

• [6] "I am thoroughly convinced Lukowich's job as skip is made, easier, and as a result he plays better, because he doesn't have the burden of calling the ice. This task is handled by Mike Chernoff who throws third stone."

• Related: Vic Rauter on TSN: "Joanne Courtney at the second position will throw the third stones" -- CurlingClips (talk) 22:53, 15 July 2021 (UTC)