Talk:Siyah al-Uswari

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Siyah al-Uswari

I don't find this >> Siyah was a native of Spahan or Khuzestan, @HistoryofIran i think that it is clear personal commentary.

In the historical documents and writings of Iran, especially Ferdowsi's Shahnameh, Mohammad-Taqi Bahar about the bravery of the Siyah al-Uswari, the Baloch commander during the reign of Yazdgerd III and how he converted to Islam with seventy of the fighters under his command who played an important role in the fall of the Sassanid.^[1] Balash-Vologases (talk) 20:24, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I just checked the citation, and you're right - it doesn't say that. But I don't add personal commentary, but I can see that you have a history of doing exactly that [2] [3] [4]. I probably forgot to cite the correct source, or mixed something up with another source by accident (hard to say, that was 8 years ago). And the citation you're citing is WP:VER, and cites zero sources - so I wonder, how does it qualify as WP:RS?. Siyah al-Uswari being Baloch during that era sounds quite odd, considering we don't even know the origin of the Baloch and when they came to be [5]. HistoryofIran (talk) 21:09, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is also another source, That's what sources cited in the article state:

Similarly, a section of the Baloch tribes was mentioned by the Arab historians under the command of General Sia Sawar (Sia Baloch).^[2]^[3]

The name of baluch actually mentioned in the ballads or legends which Ferdowsi drew upon in the sassanid's era.^[4]^[5]^[6] Balash-Vologases (talk) 22:04, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Similarly, a section of the Baloch tribes was mentioned by the Arab historians under the command of General Sia Sawar (Sia Baloch)

Are you citing the same source and author twice..? The publisher is Trafford Publishing, a book publishing company for self-publishing authors. Meaning I could even publish a book from there. It also just looks poor, no citations for his claims, making bizarre claims which heavily clashes with actual WP:RS such as Iranica; Can you explain how he is WP:RS?

The name of baluch actually mentioned in the ballads or legends which Ferdowsi drew upon in the sassanid's era.

First citation is from 1904, before the time of modern scholarship, please see WP:AGE MATTERS. I can't access the second source. Third source from JSTOR is not properly cited, I am not reading 14 pages to find the bit you're citing. Can you please give the precise page(s)? I am not optimistic, "sas(s)an" shows zero results in the JSTOR source with "Ctrl + F", which makes me you suspect you have engaged in WP:OR/WP:SYNTH again, and I wonder if you did the same with the other citations. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:15, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shahnamah mentions the Baloch in the Median era, that means before the time of Cyrus, the Persian conqueror who defeated the Meds and established the Persian Empire.^[7] Balash-Vologases (talk) 22:35, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shahnameh is a WP:PRIMARY source, please read WP:RS this time, as well as WP:PST and WP:EXTRAORDINARY. And just from a quick glance the source presents LOADS of theories, yet you're cherrypicking the ones you favour the most. The source is also a thesis submitted for the degree of "Doctor of Philosophy", i.e. not even history. Please read the Iranica source [6]. HistoryofIran (talk) 22:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you read my descriptions, you will understand that I did not add anything from my side, neither disruptive editing nor adding without citing a source, the main problem was other editors disagree to my statements. Balash-Vologases (talk) 22:18, 6 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ "Baloch ethnicity in historical and local narratives(In Persian)" (PDF). Iranology Foundation (in Persian). Retrieved June 6, 2024.
^ Dashti, Naseer (2012). The Baloch and Balochistan: A Historical Account from the Beginning to the Fall of the Baloch State. Bloomington, Indiana: Trafford Publishing. pp. [1]. ISBN 978-1-4669-5896-8.
^ "The Baloch And Balochistan By Naseer Dashti". Retrieved June 6, 2024.
^ "The Baloch race. A historical and ethnological sketch By Dames, Mansel Longworth". Retrieved June 6, 2024.
^ Jahani & Korn, Carina & Agnes (2006). The Baloch and their Neighbours, Ethnic and Linguistic Contact in Balochistan in Historical and Modern Times. Bloomington, Indiana: Cambridge University Press. pp. 314–318. ISBN 3-89500-366-2.
^ Spooner, Brian (1964). "Kūch u Balūch and Ichthyophagi". Taylor & Francis, Ltd.e. 2: 53-67. JSTOR 4299552.
^ "Baloch Nationalism: Its Origin and Development up to 1980" (PDF). SOAS University of London. pp. 93, 95, 101. Retrieved June 6, 2024.

[1] "Baloch ethnicity in historical and local narratives(In Persian)" (PDF). Iranology Foundation (in Persian). Retrieved June 6, 2024.

[2] Dashti, Naseer (2012). The Baloch and Balochistan: A Historical Account from the Beginning to the Fall of the Baloch State. Bloomington, Indiana: Trafford Publishing. pp. [1]. ISBN 978-1-4669-5896-8.

[3] "The Baloch And Balochistan By Naseer Dashti". Retrieved June 6, 2024.

[4] "The Baloch race. A historical and ethnological sketch By Dames, Mansel Longworth". Retrieved June 6, 2024.

[5] Jahani & Korn, Carina & Agnes (2006). The Baloch and their Neighbours, Ethnic and Linguistic Contact in Balochistan in Historical and Modern Times. Bloomington, Indiana: Cambridge University Press. pp. 314–318. ISBN 3-89500-366-2.

[6] Spooner, Brian (1964). "Kūch u Balūch and Ichthyophagi". Taylor & Francis, Ltd.e. 2: 53-67. JSTOR 4299552.

[7] "Baloch Nationalism: Its Origin and Development up to 1980" (PDF). SOAS University of London. pp. 93, 95, 101. Retrieved June 6, 2024.

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