Talk:Sirius Joyport

Copy of the discussion from the 'gameport' talk page that spawned this article

This is a copy of a discussion that resulted in this article. I copied it here because it contains some speculative information that might point the way toward further edits. However, as you read the below please be aware that I started with an incomplete knowledge and there are several inaccuracies below, chief among which: Atari itself was not involved in the design; and Hayenga and Woita both worked for Apple and did not move to Atari until after the Joyport had already been released.--65.94.159.242 05:28, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The original 'Joyport' was codesigned by Apple and Atari, and had nothing to do with the IBM PC. It allowed 4 Apple paddles or 2 Atari joysticks to be connected -- all fully analog. So when the IBM PC's gameport came along it was not called a Joyport (that name was licensed to Sirius to distribute the Apple/Atari device), and it had no special advantage against its main gaming competitors, so not only does this article contain inaccurate claims, but it is completely incorrect for me to search for 'Joyport' and be taken directly here. This is like if I search for 'Pepsi' and am redirected to 'Coca Cola'. It makes no sense. I have no idea how to remove a redirect or how to create a disambiguation page with a stub for 'Joyport' or 'Sirius Joyport'. Could somebody fix this please? I'm sure that Keithen Hayenga of Apple and Steve Woita of Atari who designed the original Joyport would not appreciate seeing this misrepresentation.--64.229.25.230 07:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Did apple/atari invent the 15-pin "game port" or "joyport"? The pinout was exactly the same? If yes, then you have a point. If not...well, I don't think the article claims that Intel or IBM invented the analog joystick....of course it was already in use in "Pong" type analog video games and even some consoles, but the article is about the IBM PC game port, not analog joysticks in general. It's true however that any other home computer of the 80s used a standard 9-pin digital joystick connector. If you feel that the "Joyport" term shouldn't redirect here, it can be done, as soon as there is enough data to make a specific article. But there is just nothing to rant about this one. EpiVictor 10:41, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Here is the only link I've quickly found for the "Joyport": [1] (page is in Japanese but has photos and pinouts). First of all, it's mixed analog/digital and only the internal connector looks somewhat like the gameport. For actual use, it's split into external 9-pin connectors. So there's no idea stealing, and no copying. It's just something else. It's true that the "Apple II/Atari Joyport" should have its own article. EpiVictor 10:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Well I didn't intend to say that anybody stole anything, certainly. I'm sure IBM PC's gameport was perfectly serviceable. (By the way it was NOT compatible with Atari/Apple Joyport, it was something separate -- the fact that it has almost the same capabilities is one of those things that happen when there is intense competition.) But this gameport is not the original Joyport, and in fact I don't think it was ever even referred to as a Joyport. I'd love there to be an article on the Sirius Joyport, but all my knowledge is just from my memories (like the incompatibility thing above) and from reading interviews with the game designers and such that I no longer have reference to. How am I supposed to write a wiki article with that? I have seen such attempts get ripped to shreds quickly. I have posted a notice in some places where Apple II afficionados still hang out -- I am hoping that somebody with more references on this will write it. But aren't stubs specifically designed for this purpose? (i.e. Somebody like me thinks there should be an article but doesn't really think they should be the one to fill it.) I don't know how to set up a stub and a disambiguity page and relink all that stuff this is beyond my current editing skills.--65.94.159.108 08:20, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Removing the redirect is easy, and thus "Joyport" will result in a blank article. It will be up to you or anyone else with a good will to edit it. And yeah, the PC gameport was never officially referred to as "Joyport", if not as a contraption of "Joystick port", "Joystick connector" etc. etc. EpiVictor 14:23, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

There, removed the redirect. Now it's up to you(?) to write the article, even if a stub. EpiVictor 14:40, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, thank you -- I am writing this article this evening. I am finding some good sources as it turns out (should have done that to begin with) and I think it will be more than a stub.--65.93.204.146 00:46, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Tis done .... Joyport. Perhaps though there are a few more small things you could help me with? I think the article should be titled Sirius Joyport, not just 'Joyport', but I don't know how to set up a redirect like the one that was here before. Also ... I would like to embed the image of the Sirius Joyport that is on this page: http://www.atarimagazines.com/cva/v1n1/joysticks.php (very interesting article BTW) but I don't know how and don't know if it's allowed. Finally ... how much of this discussion can/should be moved to the Sirius Joyport talk page? Thanks.--65.93.204.146 05:50, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the move, and have just done so. As you can see, the discussion and page history has moved too. Yay automation! With regards the image, it *might* be usable under fair use guidelines, but I'm not an expert on that end of things. Great article, by the way! RTucker 14:24, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Burned you out, did I? Okay, no matter. I am not that concerned with changing those things -- I am happy with the article as it is, I have already done a lot of work, and I have other things to concentrate on now instead of grinding through more wiki documentation. Was hoping you could give me a thirty second clue, but no big deal. Thanks for the help you did provide.--70.49.99.155 06:31, 30 March 2007 (UTC)