Talk:The Fat Controller

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 6, 2020	Proposed deletion	Sent to articles for deletion
November 10, 2020	Articles for deletion	Speedily kept

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Removed text

Argh, the "hit save, get preview" bug strikes again. Try again. Here follows the text I removed from the article:

[start quote]

"Fat Controller Magazine"

Fat Controller is the UK's National Student Magazine and was formed by a young Scottish entrepreneur, Douglas Bell in 2004. Fat Controller is at the helm of British student media, publishing 30,000 copies per month and distributing throughout the UK using an enormous network of volunteer students.

Fat Controller challenges established media practice in that it's contents is exclusively supplied by the readership - undergraduates and post-graduates at the UK's top ranked universities. Fat Controller's "fully interactive" feature has made it an instant success with students and is thrusting the publication to the forefront of youth culture.

The magazine is managed by three Durham graduates (Douglas Bell (Law), Rob Pain (Chemistry) and Alex Hodgkinson (Economics)) who set out aspiring to take student media to new heights. Editorial includes student travel, politics, music, media, and careers. Controvesy has surrounded Fat Controller Magazine from it's outset; in it's pilot issue, editorial included a call for the abolition of the National Uninon of Students, branding the troubled organisation as "thoroughly useless", "illegitimate" and "out of touch". In a characteristically bold move, Fat Controller's following issue published figures on the lack of graduate employment prospects, detailing a stormy forecast for the UK's graduate employment market to current university undergraduates.

Fat-Controller.com

[end quote]

All of this is puffery or comes without references. I don't think "challenges established media practice" is really necessary as a gloss for "it's contents is exclusively supplied by the readership" [sic both "it's" and "contents is"]; despite a claim of "monthly in term-term" on the website, the latest content there seems to be the article which followed the pilot issue; and there are no cites for the claims of "the" national student magazine. I have certainly never seen it in the local university, but perhaps we're not sufficiently top-ranked to get it. --Telsa 13:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

ACLU

I can find no external verification for the ACLU v. Fat Controller comment, or whatever you'd call it. I've removed it. If true, please reinsert but I'd wencourage more specific details that ACLU successdfully argued in 1989. Was this in a court? Which court? Is there public record? Alexa411 21:59, 15 March 2006 (UTC)Alexa411[reply]

There was no ACLU case, see http://www.poe-news.com/forums/sp.php?pi=1002141904 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.36.232.34 (talk) 15:27, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See Controversy section below -- EdJogg (talk) 14:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sodors Family Railways

Is Lady Hatt (nee Jane Brown) related to Sir Handel Brown the owner of the Skarloey Railway?

And has no one on Sodor ever heard of nepotism? Penrithguy 16:32, 6 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Controversy

I note that the article states ""Fat Controller" has been the subject of much controversy because of the supposed political incorrectness of the name." Does anyone have a source for this, as I have heard no criticisms (although I have noticed Sir Topham Hatt appearing more and more). DavidFarmbrough 11:16, 20 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The controversy is fake, see: http://www.poe-news.com/forums/sp.php?pi=1002141904 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.36.232.34 (talk) 15:26, 14 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For those that are interested, the blog text is as follows:

wikibombing - Jen igma 10/14/09, 10:05

years ago, i wrote this on wikipedia:

Fat Controller - Criticism

The name "Fat Controller" has been the subject of much controversy because of the supposed political incorrectness of the name. In America in 1989 the ACLU successfully argued that censorship of this name would violate the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Fat_Controller_-_Criticism/id/5041838

it stayed for years. i would do searches and find this information on random people's blogs and stuff. now there is a pseudobook out with a bunch of wikipedia "facts" that has this listed, as well. if i were interested in starting a history paradox and wake up tomorrow with dinosaurs outside my window Coke II still on the market, i would use this book to re-edit the wikipedia page and make it a Fact that this happened even though it didn't happen. but the reason i did it in the first place was to make a point about wikipedia, not to make people question what can and can't be trusted anymore and start a panic of people burning all of their books.

i manage to do this kind of stuff a lot without really meaning to. have you ever punk'd the internet before or anything?

I copy this text here, not as a means of giving this sad individual more publicity, but to underline the need for Reliable Sources and fully referenced text.

Fortunately this particular erroneous text was removed in April 2007. (Although, somewhat surprisingly, this text was added on 21 Feb 2005 (by 68.249.110.43 (talk · contribs)), when the whole 'article' only amounted to two sentences.)

EdJogg (talk) 14:11, 28 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

there is a[n ALCU] case. see "censors" book referenced at the bottom of the page.

the contoversy is listed in a book. see the references section. it has a reference, people!

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.166.1.133 (talk • contribs) 05:31, 20 November 2009

An independent editor has removed the reference used to "support" this controversy, on the basis that the publishers often source their material from Wikipedia! This would make it a circular reference. I have hence removed the section once more, as it is once again unreferenced.

EdJogg (talk) 15:29, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Image

What is the story of the link to the image at the top of the page? Would it not be better to display an image internally, and if so does one exist? If not what is the legal status of uploading an Image of the Fat Controller either scanned in from one of the books or captured from the DVD?

--Oliver Lane 15:22, 10 June 2006 (UTC) (A New Wikipedian)[reply]

This is something that's slipped under my radar, but I'll work on this now. I agree, it would be much better to have an internal file than a link to an external one. Gonzerelli 15:56, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article name change

I think this article should be changed to Sir Tophamm Hatt, since that's his real name. 65.103.84.79

The STH link redirects to this article already. Also, TFC is the UK terminology, and considering that it is from a UK series, it is the most correct. Thehalford 02:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dorky?

Someone keeps writing that the Fat Controller has appeared "dorky" in recent seasons. First of all, that's not the sort of language that should be used in an article. Secondly, it's an opinion more than anything else. HonestTom 22:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What about this?

I noticed that this article doesn't mention that Sir Topham Hatt controlled the Skarloey Railway in early seasons and was later replaced with Mr. Percival. Should I put this down? Moojgoo 21:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is well-spotted, but I don't think there is any need to add this here. This information is already present at Skarloey Railway, and this article does mention that TFC appears to be in charge of all the engines on Sodor (see the 'on TV' section).

EdJogg 23:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Cry for help

how do you edit the references section? the internet is hard —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.166.1.133 (talk) 22:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

As you know, the "references" sections source is a template that says {{reflist}}. This is a template for the page, which formats all the references in "ref" tags in references form. So what references do you wish to edit? If you already have edited them, then congratulations. It has automatically edited the "references" section via reference format. If not, then the same will happen if you do so.

74.67.169.206 (talk) 01:06, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Inventor?

I recall overhearing on of the kids watching the program, did Topham Hat invent a bridge design or something of that magnitude as an engineer?

Also, was he knighted that he's earned to sobriquet Sir? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.77.183.231 (talk) 20:01, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, he's a baronet. Marnanel (talk) 16:12, 5 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Biography (television series) Series 14 episode 18

The Dowager Hatt does not refer to her son Sir Topham Hatt as Bertram but is instead talking to Bertie the Bus who was supposed to have collected her that day but instead went for a 'steamie tour' of Sodor with Thomas. This was actually series 15 'Stop That Bus' 81.96.51.250 (talk) 23:14, 17 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Cameo"

A cameo is "a small character part in a play or movie, played by a distinguished actor or a celebrity." Fictional characters are not actors or celebrities. Therefore, they do not have cameos.

While we are at it, characters who are "mentioned" but did not appear in an episode should not be mentioned under "Appearances" because these mentions without appearing are not appearances. - SummerPhD^v2.0 15:29, 22 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Voiced by"

OK, third attempt at sorting this out, since neither EWN nor DRN were of any help at all. User:Horseradishy, I invite you to explain here your rationale of not including narrators (Ringo Starr and Michael Angelis) as voice actors. There is nothing at {{Infobox character}} that says they should be omitted. Starr and Angelis voiced all characters in seasons 1–3, all well as narration, so they should be listed in the infobox like everyone else. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 16:53, 26 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Micheal anglis I understand due to the PC games but starr is irrelivent... but a single voice on character is okay but va who everything doesn't include it Horseradishy (talk) 14:17, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, that rationale makes no sense. What do PC games have to do with this? Starr is irrelevant how? The rest of what you wrote is literally nonsensical. The Fat Controller's voice, as heard on seasons 1–2, is Starr's, so he should be listed in the infobox. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 21:47, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This remains unresolved, as now an IP is doing the same by removing all voice credits because they claim the field is "Only for voice actors of the CGI series." That's completely baseless—plucked out of thin air. I reiterate: point me to a guideline on WP where it says not to include narrators as voice actors. Nobody has done so. They couldn't even do that at Infobox character. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 21:11, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

But none of the other character articles such as Thomas the Tank Engine, James the Red Engine, Percy the Small Engine, Toby the Tram Engine and Donald and Douglas don’t have the narrators listed in there “Voice by” section, why do they have to be included? It’s kinda unnecessary. Because the narrators only did their voices when they narrated the series, they weren’t official voice actors for the characters. So why have them? 73.61.20.0 (talk) 15:21, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I can't speak for those other articles as I've never looked at them, let alone edited. I stand by my rationale above, in that the narrators (particularly Starr and Angelis) provided the Fat Controller with a 'voice', which is why they should be credited as voice actors. If the articles for other characters should also include them for the same reason, so be it—I just have no interest in making the edits.

Maybe this needs revisiting at Template talk:Infobox character to set a guideline in place, because right now me and the IP(s) have our own interpretation of how this (let's face it, rather minor) parameter should be handled, without any MOS or style guide to fall back on. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:01, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And by the way, it's not just me that refers to narration as "voiced by": "... the character was voiced by Ringo Starr both in the UK, where it originated, and the US", although in this case the author is referring to Thomas himself. Same deal either way—narration and voice acting are interchangeable. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 21:51, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Query on notability

Piotrus has recently proposed deletion for the articles about various minor characters in Awdry's Railway series. Most of these, including the current Percy the Small Engine and Henry the Green Engine seem reasonable in that List of characters in The Railway Series can suffice. The present article may be more questionable. As well as describing the character in the stories, the term "The Fat Controller" does get used more widely: several usages are summarised in the "Other uses" section of the article; the term is also used in, for example, recent article in The Economist [1] and the Daily Telegraph [2] (both paywalled). AllyD (talk) 13:24, 6 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that the term is more widely used may merit its inclusion in wiktionary, perhaps, but if it is not analyzed or discussed it is not notable. See also Wikipedia:Notability (neologisms) and of course Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:18, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Prodding is not appropriate, however. Prodding is for blatant rubbish, not for well-written and researched articles into which editors have put a lot of work, whether you may think they're non-notable or not. However, it seems to be increasingly used as a way to avoid AfD, and that's not acceptable. Articles like this deserve discussion before deletion. -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:17, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn't call Henry or Percy "minor". They're part of the "Steam Team" and would usually be considered major protagonists. Robin S. Taylor (talk) 15:04, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Of course they aren't minor. But with the attempted culling of as many Railway Series articles as possible words matter. Randy Kryn (talk) 15:07, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fat Controller can banish trains to the shadowlands! Why doesn’t the article mention this?

I mean, seriously its huge. Probably what most people know about him. Yet you wouldn’t know he has this super power from the article. Kairos (talk) 06:42, 30 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]