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Cumulative numbers of the fleet table

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I've noticed that with the total count of the fleet size, the cargo Boeing 747-400F is not counted to the total in service fleet, and I assume this is because it is eventually to be replaced by the Airbus A350F (which is included in the order count).

I wondered if this made sense, I would think since the 747Fs are still in use, it would be more reasonable to still include this count in the current fleet totals, and eventually once its fully replaced by the A350Fs, then we could remove them from the table fully. Pinkboard (talk) 04:21, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A350 Qty

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Refer to series of edit by SurferSquall, whereas he claim Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore as wrong and insist total A350 of Singapore Airlines is 70 (63 non ULR and 7 ULR). I am not really surprised by his comment based on his edit history. Anyway, below are my comments:

  1. I don't any see any reason to back up claims that Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore data dated 29 August 2023 as wrong. If CAAS (a civil aviation authority, which its role includes to maintenance of an aircraft register in Singapore) is wrong, then what's considered correct?
  2. CAAS data listed total number of Singapore Airlines A350 as "63 aircraft". Please note that CAAS do not differentiate Medium Haul, Long Haul or ULR variants.
  3. Mainly miles provide information on each variants of Singapore Airlines A350. And inform us that registration names for ULR variants is starting with 9V-SG_
  4. The information above is further validated by news when Singapore Airlines received its first A350 ULR. Singapore Air has received delivery of the world's first ultra long-range (ULR) A350, registered MSN220 (9V-SGA).
  5. If look up CAAS data, we can found that 7 of 63 A-350 have registration name starting with 9V-SG_ (9V-SGA,9V-SGB,9V-SGC,9V-SGD,9V-SGE,9V-SGF,9V-SGG)
  6. Therefore statement Singapore has 70 A350s in total, the ULRs are NOT counted in the 63 number. is proved to be incorrect. Ckfasdf (talk) 02:40, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
1. Of the CAAS register is correct, then it needs to be included as a reference/citation in the article.
@SurferSquall: CAAS register is already included as reference in the article, it is actually the first reference on reference section (if on edit mode, please look up <ref name="Singapore Aircraft Registry" />. Ckfasdf (talk) 17:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
2. Airbus’ own information contradicts that. According to Airbus, SIA currently has:
63 passenger A350s, with 2 more on order
7 A350-900ULRs
7 A350Fs on order. SurferSquall (talk) 15:34, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I Assume Airbus information that you mentioned is AIRBUS A350 FIRM ORDERS dated November 2022. Please note that source is only mention firm order of A350F, A350-900 and A350-1000, not including delivery. So you can't tell how many aircraft have been delivered based on that source.
Airbus source states Singapore Airlines have firm order for 65 A350-900 and 7 A350F, and total order of A350 is 7 aircraft. No mentions of other specific variant.
I assume you mixed up between A350F and A350-900ULR. Whereas those are different variant, A350F is a freighter aircraft and it's already mentioned in the inventory table as "Singapore Airlines Cargo fleet".
CAAS registry clearly states that Singapore Airlines only have 63 A350, listed as A350-941. (if you dont have spreadsheet apps like MS-Excel, I have upload it as an image here)
7 of 63 A350s have registration mark with 9V-SGx, whereas as I mentioned above that registration code indicates A350-900 ULR
So, other than your misunderstanding... There is no contradiction between CAAS data and Airbus information.
If you still insist to say there are 63 A350s AND 7 A350-900ULRs, please provide reference that explicitly mention that.Ckfasdf (talk) 17:58, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PS: you may also need to see List of Airbus A350 orders and deliveries and look up for "Singapore Airlines". Ckfasdf (talk) 18:25, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Ckfasdf I am well aware of the difference between cargo and passenger aircraft, that comment was unnecessary. The CAAS registry needs to be cited directly next to the A350 in the table. SurferSquall (talk) 19:16, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, CAAS registry don't really need to be cited next to the A350 in the table, esp. when every aircraft in service in the table refer CAAS registry. As it was already cited on the first sentence of current fleet section. That's why we have this note in the article <!--Fleet figures are based on CAAS' Aircraft Register (official source). Do not make edits without a citation.-->. Ckfasdf (talk) 23:03, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That note is an inivible comment, which isn’t visible to non-editors. According to Wikipedia’s own rules, statements have to be sourced with a citation. If no publicly visible inline citation is there, the citation requirement is not met. Having it in the first line of the article is not in any way good enough. SurferSquall (talk) 23:08, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@SurferSquall: No, it was cleary visible... what's the reference after As of 29 August 2023, Singapore Airlines operates the following aircraft: And why do you think only that ULRs needs to be sourced? you dont see any reference next to the other aircraft. Ckfasdf (talk) 23:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Because, as I did, someone could get mixed up on it; therefore it’s better to put a citation there. There is no problem with this. SurferSquall (talk) 23:15, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Seems only you, who mixed up on it. Again, my question is why you dont you insist to have reference next to the other aircraft, only for ULR? Ckfasdf (talk) 23:17, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
When did I say I only wanted a reference for the ULRs? You seem not to understand my English very well SurferSquall (talk) 14:36, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Both the Airbus Orders&Deliveries document of September 2023 ("Worldwide" sheet) and the CAAS document state that SIA has 63 A350-900. Of which 7 are the A350-900ULR variant.
So in the fleet table of this article it's 56 A350-900 and 7 A350-900ULR. WikiPate (talk) 19:00, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Whoops. Was reading the 2022 doc. @Ckfasdf; your accusatory nature is still completely unnecessary. I suggest you drop it. SurferSquall (talk) 19:19, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually both November 2022 and September 2023 docs, state that SIA has 63 A350-900. I don't see where your confusion coming from. Ckfasdf (talk) 23:03, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Again, your accusatory and inflammatory nature is not needed; drop it. SurferSquall (talk) 23:08, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And your sentence should be as follows: “I don’t see where your confusion IS coming from”. Your consistent grammar errors and constant accusatory tone don’t give you a good image. SurferSquall (talk) 23:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, you still dont answer the question... I don’t see where your confusion IS coming from? Ckfasdf (talk) 23:18, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@User:Ckfasdf Having that extra mouthful of a sentence is unnecessary SurferSquall (talk) 14:34, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@SurferSquall:} OK. however, the fleet table data is totally refer to CAAS registry and latest CAAS registry is dated 29 August 2023? why did you change it as well? Refer to Template:As of documentation, "as of" is used only in cases where an article is intended to provide the most current information available and the most current information is CAAS registry dated 29 August 2023. Ckfasdf (talk) 21:01, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Because the fleet totals have been updated several times since then, that isn't the most current SurferSquall (talk) 22:07, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@SurferSquall: Please note that the fleet figures on the table is exactly the same CAAS registry and CAAS registry is also the only reference for "in service aircraft". This makes CAAS registry is the most current. If we have newer reference than CAAS registry in the article, only then CAAS registry is not the most current. Ckfasdf (talk) 22:14, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Have you checked that the numbers in the table are the same as the August CAAS registry? If that's the case, you're welcome to change the date back. SurferSquall (talk) 22:16, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My comments above is because I have checked it in the first place... If there are any differences between the table and CAAS registry, then the table need to be revised to follow CAAS registry as the difference is unsourced. 22:22, 14 October 2023 (UTC) Ckfasdf (talk) 22:22, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So you think people are just making things up? It is better to find a simple flying article or something to cite to than to just delete true information SurferSquall (talk) 22:24, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is possible for some ppl making things up, I've seen it quite a lot. However, I also prefer to WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM, but if it's really unsourced then it should be removed. Ckfasdf (talk) 22:36, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But most of the time it isn't unsourced, a source just isn't added. WP:FIXTHEPROBLEM is always the way to go SurferSquall (talk) 22:45, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

SurferSquall Refer to your edit here, whereas you change number of A350-900 to be 57 and Boeing 777-300ER to be 25. Do you mind to tell us how did you end up with that number? Since my calculation based on CAAS registry, as shown here for A350-900 and here for B777-300ER, clearly states number of A350-900 as 56 (63-7) and Boeing 777-300ER as 26. Ckfasdf (talk) 12:59, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Miscount. Not a huge deal. Just fix it and move on. SurferSquall (talk) 00:43, 22 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect Fleet Sizes

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The page mentions that the table is updated as of February 2024, however this is incorrect. According to the spreadsheet from the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore dated 1 March 2024, the fleet sizes that do not match up are:

  1. Airbus A380s. The current table indicated 14 aircraft, however, the spreadsheet indicates 13 aircraft. Furthermore, MainlyMiles does mention that one aircraft, 9V-SKF, is bound to be scrapped. Hence, the table should reflect 12 aircraft. This is also corroborated via Singapore Airlines' Annual Report for FY2022-2023 here (page 20).
  2. Boeing 777-300ERs. While the spreadsheet does indicate 26 aircraft, the annual report mentions 23 aircraft, indicating 3 aircraft that are no longer in service (but still registered). This is also mentioned in the MainlyMiles article linked above.
  3. Boeing 787-10s. The spreadsheet again lists 22 Dreamliners, while the table currently lists 21.

Also, the current totals do not add up, and they would be incorrect regardless. The table currently lists 161 aircraft in service (despite the numbers adding up to 159). In reality, the table should list 155 aircraft in service, and 62 aircraft on order, given the changes listed above. Pinkboard (talk) 17:41, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2024

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Changes to be made to the table:

Change A380 in service fleet size from 14 to 12.

Change Boeing 777-300ER in service fleet from 26 to 23.

Change Boeing 787-10 in service fleet from 21 to 22, on order fleet from 10 to 9.

Change in service Total from 161 to 155. Change order Total from 63 to 62. Pinkboard (talk) 17:47, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Funnyfarmofdoom (talk to me) 20:39, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't figure out how to reference the post I already made on the talk page; here it is:
The page mentions that the table is updated as of February 2024, however this is incorrect. According to the spreadsheet from the Civil Aviation Authority of Singapore dated 1 March 2024, the fleet sizes that do not match up are:
  1. Airbus A380s. The current table indicated 14 aircraft, however, the spreadsheet indicates 13 aircraft. Furthermore, MainlyMiles does mention that one aircraft, 9V-SKF, is bound to be scrapped. Hence, the table should reflect 12 aircraft. This is also corroborated via Singapore Airlines' Annual Report for FY2022-2023 here (page 20).
  2. Boeing 777-300ERs. While the spreadsheet does indicate 26 aircraft, the annual report mentions 23 aircraft, indicating 3 aircraft that are no longer in service (but still registered). This is also mentioned in the MainlyMiles article linked above.
  3. Boeing 787-10s. The spreadsheet again lists 22 Dreamliners, while the table currently lists 21.
Also, the current totals do not add up, and they would be incorrect regardless. The table currently lists 161 aircraft in service (despite the numbers adding up to 159). In reality, the table should list 155 aircraft in service, and 62 aircraft on order, given the changes listed above. Pinkboard (talk) 06:55, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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