Talk:Simurgh/Archive 1

Archive 1

Additional info

I was at an exhibition of Sassanid Art in a Paris museum yesterday. Along with a case containing various representations of senmurvs on plates and vases, there was a caption in French saying that it may represent the "Kwarnah" (the glory and royal fortune) of the legendary dynasty of the Kayanides who ruled before the Sassanid period.Meowy 23:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Is the Tolkien "Smaug" derived from Simurgh? Milesaw 18:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)MilesAW

Sources

Instead of the dubious passive voice "it was said", if editors would only tell who said what, and when, with some quotations, this would become far more informative. Not my field of expertise, however. --Wetman 07:12, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Semurg

In Uzbek mythology, the semurg is a bird of happiness. It seems likely that this is related, but there's no information anywhere on Wikipedia about it. For more information, Google semurg bird of happiness. --71.217.100.27 18:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Simurgh.jpg

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Two Simurghs?

In the glossary of my "Conference of the Birds" (Shambala, 1971, C. S. Nott's translation of the french translation by Garcin de Tassy), under Simurgh, it say this:

Sen-murgh, the Great Bird. In the Mahabharata, Garuda. There are two Simurghs. One lives on Mt. Elbruz in the Caucasus, far from man. Its nest is of pillars of ebony, sandal, and aloe wood. It has the gift of speech and its feathers possess magical properties. It is a guardian of heroes, a symbol of God. The other one is a horrible monster which also lives on a mountain, but resembles a black cloud.

For one thing, this includes a lot of interesting details about the good Simurgh - her nest, etc. - that would add to the article. The possibility of two? Even more important. But since it is just a glossary note, who knows which translator inserted it, and where the info came from. Does anyone have any idea about the truth / source of the info? I'll look into it elsewhere, but I thought I'd mention it here. --Chinawhitecotton 13:13, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Further investigation has come up with this, from E. J. Brill's First Encyclopaedia of Islam, 1913-1936 pg. 427:

The persian epix gives a more vivid notion of the Simurgh, less affected by Zoroastrian theology and cosmology. In the heroic tradition of Iran there are found two Simurghs, viz. the bird-shaped guardian genius of Zal and Rustam, and secondly, a monstrous bird, killed by Isfandiyar. The first Siburgh, according to the Shahnama, lives on the mountain of Alburz, far from the dwelling-places of men; its nest has columns of ebony and sandalwood.... When the Simurgh comes near, the air is darkened; the bird is like a cloud 'whose rain are corals'. Zal, the son of Sam, who was after his birth exposed by order of his father, was found by the Simurgh, who bore him to her nest, where she educated the child...

...in contradistinction to this good Simurgh... which knows the mystery of fate... the other Simurgh...is a noxious monster. It lives on a mountain, and resembles a flying mountain or a black cloud; with its claw it can lift crocodiles, panthers, even an elephant. It has two young ones, as large as itself; if they fly, they cast an enormous shadow.

...It may be then, that two different mythical conceptions have been subsumed under one name...

For what it is worth. --Chinawhitecotton 05:36, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Persian/Turkish - Simurgh/Humo

As you all know that in the area of Khorasan, Persian and Turkic cultures and languages were fused together. Well, in Central Asia the Simurgh is pretty popular, even Uzbekistans coat of arms has it, for example. Basically, I'm suggesting that someone take their time to add this... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.86.28.125 (talk) 03:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal

This should really be merged with Anqa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.3.124.147 (talk) 20:34, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Agree. I've added the Merge templates. There appears to be no individual notability for the term Anqa as a separate page. ناهد/(Nåhed) _speak! 10:08, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

untitled comments

The statement that "Simurgh" comes from the Persian word for "thirty" is simply false. The etymology provided in the correction is correct (and is of some mythological and linguistic interest). In addition to the linguistic note, the entire article could use some work, on both mythological and stylistic grounds.

yeah, and what about this Slavic mythology stuff? As the article stands it claims:

The ancient Slavs have a similar creature called the Simurg. It was a winged dog (a griffon-like creature), and served Trajanus, one of the Slavic gods.

OK, is there really a Slavic "simurg"? Is there really a Slavic god named "Trajanus"? --Iustinus 21:48, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As fir Simurg - see the article on Simargl. Such a deity was really worshipped by Eastern Slavs. I think that the scholars of Slavic mythology and Slavic paganism agree on this, but I don't have any sources by hand. Mistakenly, his name - written also as Siemargl, Siemirgiel etc. (depending on the dialect) was mistranslated as the names of two beings: Siem and Rgiel. Also, historians agree that there could be a contact between Slavs and some Iranian peoples, as eg. Sarmatians, possibly also Parthians and maybe some other ones. Also, the names like Svarog/Svarozyc, meaning the Sun deity, seem to be related to Iranian "xvar" (hot, burning). Of course these words could also be remnants of the common, but farther Indo-European past. Anyway, Simurgh and Simargl are portrayed very similiar; both have the features of dog-birds, ie. the head is of a dogand the rest of the body - of a bird. Both beings played the benevolent and protective roles to humans. I'm not an expert here, I'm only recounting facts and opinions I've read somewhere else. I don't care what someone else will do with it :) Please check the scholarly sources anyway (there are lots of them. eg. Gieysztor), best regards! Critto (talk) 09:17, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Is there a difference between Iranian mythology and Persian mythology? Actually I am not vey sure because there might be a difference in standard definitions.I think in any case we should redirect Iranian mythology to Persian mythology.Pasha 01:25, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Simurgh = 30 Birds... that is the literal translation. Si = 30 Murgh = Bird.

No, it's from Pahlavi sēnmurw > modern Persian simorɢ. ناهد/(Nåhed) _speak! 06:12, 12 October 2008 (UTC)