Talk:Simon Oliver (priest)

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MA Oxon

Hi 142! An MA from the University of Oxford is not a degree in its own right, it is an upgrade/promotion from a BA. As per the Wiki article on this peculiar practice: "the Master of Arts degree is not awarded separately (for instance, in addition to that of Bachelor of Arts), but rather the new rank is treated as a conversion of one degree to another." It is an historical anomaly, ie a tradition, that BAs are promoted to MAs at Oxford, Cambridge, and Dublin universities. This has been challenged in the British Parliament for being misleading, but the tradition has been allowed to continue. The wording in this article is the one I've developed to include the above as succinctly as possible.

If that isn't the issue you have, but whether he has those degrees or not: according to Crockford he graduate BA in 1993 and MA in 1998, and as already stated, the MA does not exist as a stand alone degree at Oxford. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 20:51, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Gaia. I merely added a {{citation needed}} tag to indicate that the information was not in fact sourced from the footnote that immediately followed the sentence. I don't mean to call into doubt the Oxbridge practice with respect to MAs nor whether Oliver has one. (That being said, I would have to quibble with the assertion that Oxford MAs are "not ... degree[s] in [their] own right", though I understand what you are trying to get at.) 142.160.89.97 (talk) 21:02, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In that case, I'd argue that there isn't a need for the template, because not everything needs a citation: the BA/MA practice is explained via a link to the appropriate article rather than needing a reference to back it up. If the article simply stated "graduating with a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree in 1993 and a Master of Arts (MA Oxon) degree in 1998" that would suggest two degree and be misleading. Its just added context, in the same way as the following sentence has a description of Westcott House for added context. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 21:11, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

the BA/MA practice is explained via a link to the appropriate article rather than needing a reference to back it up. Wikipedia does not qualify as a reliable source for this purpose (WP:CIRCULAR). 142.160.89.97 (talk) 00:03, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't need a source. Its a non-controversial, (semi-)common knowledge explanatory statement. The link is there if someone want more details; which is the purpose of links. Gaia Octavia Agrippa ^Talk 23:46, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]