Talk:Sifan Hassan

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I read about sifan and it is interesting. I wanted to help translate to Oromo language. I tried to find translate button but I could not. I can create a new article in that language but it won't be listed as available in that language. How could I help? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dotohelp (talk • contribs) 12:35, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

She is Oromo-Dutch NOT Ethiopian-Dutch

UPDATE: This has been partially resolved. MoS determines past nationalities or places of birth, in this case Ethiopia, should not be included. Check "MoS Permits Ethnicity" for further debate regarding whether her Oromo ethnicity warrants inclusion

Where is it resolved? Link the discussion. DragonFury (talk) 09:31, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

If you actually read (again. Seems you have recurring problem with not doing that. Reading), you'd be able to realize I'm clearly referring to the exclusion of "Ethiopian" from the lead since that's literally what I say. Anyways I reflected the point by mentioning it's been partially resolved. Leyncho (talk) 10:12, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Read what? All I see you claiming there is a MoS, but not linking it. You're claiming it's resolved, but not linking where it is resolved. You say admins decided on stuff but don't link where they resolved it. The only thing you link is the discussion from the Nikola Tesla article, which you've very liberally interpreted in a way so it applies to this article. There are plenty of articles where the exact opposite is the case, take the Max Verstappen article for instance; born in Belgium, but has a Dutch passport as well: dual nationality, thus he's referred to as Belgian-Dutch. I've been civil for the most part, meanwhile you've called me names, you've called other editors "stupid bitches", "pussies", and "dumb colonialists" in edit summaries. As I said in another comment on this talk page: The two of us are not going to reach a conclusion to this argument, so get an admin involved. You've threatened to do so multiple times now, so just do it and get an actual judgement.DragonFury (talk) 10:45, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

1). Oh my gosh dude you can not be serious. I AM REFERRING TO THE EXCLUSION OF "ETHIOPIAN" AS I LITERALLY JUST SAID TWICE' now THAT I HAD presumed had been resolved since you are obviously not trying to include it. Anyways I LITERALLY QUOTED THE PART WHERE MOS SAYS "previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead". If your problem was me not linking exactly where in the MoS I am referencing YOU COULDVE JUST ASKED INSTEAD OF JUST IGNORING. Here is the link where MoS word for word has my quote since you think I'm lying MOS:ETHNICITY. This now warrants exclusion of her previous nationality "Ethiopian". Your Max Verstappen article is irrelevant because LITERALLY LIKE MY QUOTE THAT I QUOTED DIRECTLY FROM MOS AGES AGO STATES "previous nationalities should not be mentioned" Max Verstappen's is NOT a PREVIOUS nationality. He CURRENTLY still holds BOTH citizenships. PLEASE JUST READ NEXT TIME AND STOP WASTING EVERYONE INVOLVED'S TIME.

2). LITERALLY HOW AM I "liberally interpreting" TESLAS ARTICLE. WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE. Like I said, you could've just pointed out what was different about his that warrants inclusion of his ethnicity in the "Ethnicity-nationality" manner but not for Sifan Hassan LIKE 10 REPLIES AND REVERTS AGO INSTEAD OF JUST IGNORING THE TALK PAGE, BRINGING UP PETTY ARGUMENTS AND SIMPLY REVERTING ANYWAY. AND YOU STILL HAVENT EVEN POINTED OUT A SINGLE REASON AS TO HOW I INTERPRETED IT "liberally".

3). No it's not "the two of us". Don't drag me into your belligerence. It is YOU that is refusing to reach a conclusion. You're literally wasting Admin's time. You literally STILL haven't even brought up a proper point at all. You're just typing words AND NOT READING. LIKE I HOW TOLD YOU I DONT KNOW HOW TO GET AN ADMIN INVOLVED. NOT TO MENTION YOU SHOULD BE TRYING TO DO THE SAME TOO INSTEAD OF JUST BURYING YOUR HEAD AND REVERTING WITH NO EXPLANATIONS. Neither did I "threaten" to get admin involved either. But given that obviously you'd rather do that instead of just defend your point like a competent individual would, I supposed I will try to figure out how to get admin involved and unfortunately waste their time.

4) I literally never called you any names. Writing "replied to Dragonfirst" in an edit note is NOT "calling you a name" unlike what you tried saying.

5). Anyways, as for the rest, I'd appreciate it if you did not bring up my past as that was before I knew of any rules prohibiting such and that is not relevant to this talk nor a true reflection of the man I am now or the man I wish to be in the future. Thank you. Leyncho (talk) 12:09, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

JFYI Ethiopia apparently doesn't allow dual nationality, though I'm not sure if this means she's automatically stripped of her Ethiopian nationality. In any case, yes, this user's behaviour is inappropriate. I'd recommend they be blocked from editing this article. Kronix1986 (talk) 22:19, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Listing her as "Oromo-Dutch" implies she is Oromo and Dutch. Ethiopia is a NATIONALITY and her NATIONALITY is DUTCH hence why she is running for the DUTCH national team and NOT the Ethiopian one!! Her ethnicity on the other hand follows her wherever she goes hence why she is always wearing her OROMO necklace and OROMO wristband as well as why you can find her wrapping herself in her OROMO flag in pictures and NEVER an Ethiopian one.

In conclusion, She is Oromo and her nationality is Dutch hence she is OROMO-DUTCH not ETHIOPIAN-Dutch

She does not even claim Ethiopia. Stop reverting this edit. Leyncho (talk) 08:44, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

Ok I just read the specific part listed by the MoS. First and foremost "Ethiopian" should not be there according to MoS since only argument would be it's her past nationality and is not her current one

"previous nationalities or the place of birth should not be mentioned in the lead" -MoS

Now as for the argument why "Oromo" should be placed there I will reference MoS again

"Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless it is relevant to the subject's notability" - MoS

First and foremost "Generally" does not automatically mean it shouldn't be included. Second, her being Oromo is rather notable as that is why Oromos love and adore her. Third, she makes it rather notable herself when she wears her necklace and wristband of the ♥️💚♥️ Oromo flag colors as well as having draped herself in the Oromo flag at the end in one of her races. Leyncho (talk) 13:48, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

User:DragonFury Read this page. Delete Ethiopian. Leyncho (talk) 22:08, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

User:DragonFury It seems you're trying to suggest you changed it to where she was born rather than her previous nationality but if you came here and read this talk, you'd notice I quote it where the MoS literally prohibits places of birth as well:

"previous nationalities **or the place of birth** should not be mentioned in the lead" -MoS

Leyncho (talk) 22:17, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

MoS Permits Ethnicity. Administrators Approved

On the Nikola Tesla page, this same exact topic was discussed intensely to the point some administrators I'm guessing took action and locked it where his ethnicity is placed in the lead. "Serbian-American". There is nothing different about Nikola Tesla that would warrant his ethnicity from inclusion and not Sifan Hassan. as well as these other athletes ethnicities. Therefore it is safe to assume my conclusions and interpretation of the MoS guidelines are correct and will be upheld by administrators in any event where it leads to that point as well. Here is a direct link to that talk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Nikola_Tesla Leyncho (talk) Leyncho (talk) 08:15, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Her ethnicity is already mentioned by the addition of the phrase "of Oromo descent". This neatly separates her nationality (Dutch) from her ethnicity (Oromo) while highlighting both. By referring to her as Oromo-Dutch it implies she carries both as her nationality, which is simply not true. DragonFury (talk) 08:30, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

The Tesla dispute is because there are several nations and ethnic groups who claim him as their own due to the shifting borders of the region. This has no bearing on Sifan Hassan, who as an Ethiopian refugee was granted Dutch citizenship and chose to represent the Netherlands in international sport. [User:Kronix1986|Kronix1986]] (talk)

That literally has no impact whatsoever! Ultimately they concluded that his ethnicity should be there and any prior nationalities where he lived should be neglected!! That is the point. Sifan's prior nationality of Ethiopian should not be included but her Oromo ethnicity should just as was done with Nikola Tesla. Ethnicity-nationality. Serbian-American for Tesla. Oromo-Dutch for Sifan. Leyncho (talk) 00:38, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I shouldn't need to remind you that your general tenor in this article - aggressive, emotional, falsely claiming consensus, implying other people are stupid - is not appropriate behaviour in a Talk page, or anywhere on Wikipedia. Kronix1986 (talk) 22:05, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia says to be bold. I'm bold. I'm not emotional. I didn't falsely claim consensus. You're being deceitful. You're interpreting it as an implication of ones stupidity. Not me Leyncho (talk) 00:43, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Can someone please guide me on how to request administrator approval to block someone from editing and suggest they are not fit for such? Did you just not read what you just responded to User:DragonFury? Nikola Tesla's ETHNICITY was placed first in this: "Serbian-American", manner. This did NOT imply anything about his nationality. It was about his SERBIAN ETHNICITY. If that's not enough for you, here's a link referring to the phrase "Irish-American" as being AMERICANS with IRISH ancestry Irish Americans . Please take the time to simply think through your edits rather than making up your own, literally made up interpretations of things. This should've been entirely avoided had you taken the time do such. Or just simply not have made up or viewed your interpretation as absolute in the first place. Despite the fact the literally comment you are replying already proves your point wrong. And there's no need for the "of Oromo descent" part when you can simply add "Oromo-Dutch". You can delete that part if you wish since that was your addition Leyncho (talk) 10:50, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

You've been having the same discussion with the same arguments on tons of articles and have been called back on those as well. the Mo Farah article and it's talk page is the most recent example I can find at the moment. Her Oromo ethnicity is currently mentioned in the lead and I'd consider that more than enough to cover your concerns regarding the Dutch v Ethiopian v Oromo debate. PS. feel free to get an admin involved in the debate, reading some of your edit summaries I doubt it will end the way you think it will. DragonFury (talk) 11:23, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Bruh, how's it gonna end 💀 User:DragonFury. Anyway, I've been presenting the same arguments on several other articles because the same arguments apply in several articles........ No no one "called back" any of my arguments. Not justifiably at least. I just have no clue why you're so adamant of it being "of Oromo descent". Not only is that misleading a bit because it's not just "descent"/ancestry. She's fully Oromo ethnically. Born raised in Oromia. But it's also longer than just saying "Oromo-Dutch" in which the lead is supposed to be a short intro anyway. Not only that but like I literally just mentioned, the same was done with Nikola Tesla saying "Serbian-American" and with [Irish Americans]]. Leyncho (talk) 12:03, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Then call in an admin since we're clearly not going to reach an agreement, and by referring to me as "dragonfist" in the edit summary you've clearly abandoned civil discussion. DragonFury (talk) 12:30, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Typos or not remembering your exact name is uncivil now... Either way, How is dragonfist, referring to you by the name of a movie, "uncivil"... There's literally no reason for you to not reach an agreement here. I precisely defended my points perfectly to the extent that you ran out of any arguments that I haven't already properly countered already. You literally don't even have any incentive to remove "Oromo" from "Oromo-Dutch". You're just choosing to not agree and be belligerent just for the sake of it at this point. I don't know how to request admin. Read so much on it and it's still not straightforward. Leyncho (talk) 12:48, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

I've reviewed the article again and it seems to already emphasise her "Oromo origin" to a greater degree than comparable articles. Mo Farah, for example, does not have his ethnic origin / clan mentioned in the lede or infobox; he's simply referred to as a Somali-born British athlete.

I'd also argue that the mention of Hassan's "home town" needs to be removed from the infobox; a huge proportion of people grow up outside their birth town in the same country, and current convention does not mention this unless it's notable. This article needs work. Kronix1986 (talk) 22:16, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Review this discussion not the article. Nikola Tesla's is "Serbian-American" and admins locked it that way. Your Mo Farah argument is poorer than my Tesla argument because I can go to his article and change that right now. Meanwhile admins locked Teslas. Literally read this discussion. Leyncho (talk)

The hometown part is apart of the "athlete" template. So it's already permitable. I just made use of it.

Home town

Can anyone please explain why a refugee from Ethiopia has an Ethiopian "home town" listed in the infobox? I'd expect her current residence, which might be Eindhoven or thereabouts in the Netherlands but I'm unsure. Place of birth is listed separately. Anyway, genuinely curious. LRataplan (talk) 21:59, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Hello User:LRataplan, a hometown is simply where one grew up in early life. Hence she grew up in Kersa, Oromia. You moving away from it doesn't seize to make it your hometown. Leyncho (talk) 22:14, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Clear. Thank you, User:Leyncho! LRataplan (talk) 23:07, 7 August 2021 (UTC)

Her home town is not notable simply because she grew up in a slightly different part of the same region of Ethiopia. There are thousands of athletes who grew up in a different settlement in the same region, and as in cases of other refugee/migrant athletes, the "home town" is not listed if it's in the same country/region as the birth town. As you said, there should be a field listing her current residence in the Netherlands, as she is a Dutch national and represents the Netherlands in athletics. Kronix1986 (talk) 09:02, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

Dude. Please. Just. Rreeeaaadddd. The MOS:ETHNICITY rule that you are referencing about notability is about INCLUDING IN THE LEAD. It has nothing to do with using the hometown parameter of the athlete template. I already pointed out to you that that was what I was doing. Making use of that already specific parameter. I thought that would be enough for you to comprehend. You can go ahead and make use of the hometown parameter for those thousand of other athletes if you want. As far as I'm aware there's nothing prohibiting it. If you know something I don't LET ME KNOW INSTEAD OF PRESENTING SOME PRESUMABLY MADE UP OPINIONS ABOUT HOW THINGS SHOULD BE DONE. Leyncho (talk) 11:06, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

"Ethiopian/Ethiopian-born" can not be included in lead

'MOS:ETHNICITY Prohibits inclusion of places of birth or past nationality. In this case this is Ethiopia. Stop including it. Case closed' Leyncho (talk) 08:54, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

User:Kronix1986 You LITERALLY RESPONDED TO THE THREAD WHERE I LITERALLY POINTED OUT THAT THE MOS:ETHNICITY PROHIBITS INCLUSION OF ethnicity NATIONALITY IN THE LEAD YET YOU STILL KEEP REVERTING INCLUSION OF IT. Leyncho (talk) 08:55, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

"Oromo" is an ethnicity according to Wikipedia's article on the Oromo - so by your own claim, it should not be in the lede. The MOS actually states, "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable."

Her Ethiopian heritage features prominently in English language news coverage of her, as would be expected for an Ethiopian refugee who fled her birth country and now represents the Netherlands, which granted her citizenship. If we ignored the notability of her Ethiopian heritage, the article would revert to describing her as a Dutch athlete. In either case, there would be no mention of her Oromo ethnicity. Kronix1986 (talk) 09:21, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

I meant "nationality" (I just edited it to reflect such now). If you either simply clicked on the link OR LITERALLY READ THE TITLE I PUT IN BOLD you would've picked that up..... READ WHAT IT STATES NEXT LITERALLY RIGHT AFTER THAT PARAGRAPH. Exactly what I put in the title. PLEASE actually put in JUST A LITTLE BIT of effort INTO READING. EVEN IN THE PART THAT YOU QUOTED, her nationality and the nationality that she became notable under IS DUTCH. NOT ETHIOPIAN..... There is no such thing as "Ethiopian Heritage" technically speaking. Ethiopia is a multinational entity. But that's a complicated topic. In short, her heritage is Oromo not Ethiopian. Nowhere does any coverage list her "heritage" as being Ethiopian.... "the article would revert to describing her as a Dutch athlete. In either case, there would be no mention of her Oromo ethnicity." what are you even talking about. Like literally. Obviously it's going to revert to that and not mention it. YOU DELETED IT.... Like I already mentioned about 100 times, THIS SAME DISCUSSION HAPPENED ON Nikola Tesla's page and it ended with my argument (Ethnicity-Nationality) format being the final form. Serbian-American for Tesla, and Oromo-Dutch for Sifan Leyncho (talk) 09:53, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

• X-born has a birtherist xenophobic ring to it. Go with Ethiopian, Ethiopian-Dutch, or Dutch.--2601:C4:C300:A210:1C30:C5A4:8D:5508 (talk) 13:17, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Nike

Is Nike her employer or sponsor or both?

In the United States, it is common for track athletes to have a corporate sponsor, but rather unusual for them to be employe by the company. She could be both, but from this end, it reads like she works there. 72.174.131.123 (talk) 08:48, 24 December 2023 (UTC)