Talk:Siegaue rape case

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Comment

I have tagged this as needing editing for NPOV. It is a sensitive case because of the involvement of an immigrant and has been made use of by racist organisations to justify themselves. Unfortunately, in "translating" from German, the creator has made so many errors that much of the article is unclear or ambiguous. Most importantly, allegations have been repeated as though they were facts. Conflicting reports have not been clarified - the man is described variously as carrying a "machete", a "knife" and a "branch saw". Deb (talk) 19:42, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Machete" is a citation by the boyfriend, "knife" is not in the article. Please name the errors or things that are "unclear or ambigous" - so that I can correct them or correct them yourself. Otherwise I will remove the tagging. This article has been linked on the de:-main page few days ago which is not not known for promoting racism.--Greywin (talk) 19:50, 10 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I'm still missing hard facts that the POV tagging is justified or that there are "so many errors that much of the article is unclear or ambiguous." List the errors right here or remove the tagging, please. The only errors I found were in the "fact" that you presented above.--Greywin (talk) 19:01, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And I repeat what I wrote in the history: I am thankful for someone improving my English, as I'm not a native speaker - instead of bullying me on several talk pages. ;)--Greywin (talk) 19:07, 11 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Don't make false accusations. It's not my fault your English is poor. Deb (talk) 11:36, 13 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody said that. But it's also not my fault, that I'm not a native speaker and never will be.--Greywin (talk) 00:18, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

But maybe it explains why you think I'm "bullying" you when I am trying to ensure that such articles conform to the neutral point of view policy. Deb (talk) 16:02, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You wrote "your English is poor". This is an example for bullying. Remember that this talk page is not about "my English", but about the article. You should be able to separate this. Back to the article: If it's now in a better shape, the tagging can be removed. If not, please list your points here, so that everyone can comprehend, why the article is still tagged.--Greywin (talk) 19:57, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That is not an example of "bullying", it's a matter of fact, which you just acknowledged above. The untagging should be done by the person who fixes the article. Deb (talk) 20:02, 15 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Remove tags. I have checked the article which has multiple edits by several editors. It looks fine to me. Plus, it is translated from the German Wikipedia, which already ensures a high level of quality, particularly of the sourced. I find the accusation that "allegations have been repeated as though they were facts" particularly egregious. The perpetrator has been found guilty and sentenced to 11.5 years in prison. Once a person is found guilty by a court of law in a presumably civilized country, the person is no longer a "suspect", he is now a "perpetrator." XavierItzm (talk) 10:15, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- You may not have noticed how much I and others have improved the English since the article was created. I believe that the creator used machine translation when copying from German wikipedia, hence the poor standard of the original wording. Sadly, it is in the nature of Wikipedia that the inclusion of a topic in German or any other wikipedia at a given time cannot guarantee the quality of the article. And your comments about the difference between "suspect" and "perpetrator" are wholly irrelevant, as this was never an issue. Deb (talk) 14:03, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Perp has been convicted of violent rape, and it is established that he was in Germany illegally. It is not POV to include these facts in the article. I also Englished the page, and removed inapt tags.E.M.Gregory (talk) 14:38, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- I know you did - I sent you a thank you. Whilst it is not necessarily POV to include the fact that he was in Germany illegally, synthesis is not to be encouraged. And a sentence like "The perpetrator was a 31-year-old rejected asylum seeker from Ghana who, according to media reports, had committed even more serious crimes in the past," is definitely POV. Deb (talk) 15:40, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The obvious remedy is to specify & source his prior convictions. Or to suggest this in an inline template.E.M.Gregory (talk) 16:07, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wouldn't you agree that a phrase like "even more serious crimes" is itself POV unless it is a direct quote? Deb (talk) 17:22, 19 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]