Talk:Shmap'n Shmazz/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: 49p (talk · contribs) 00:20, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Reviewer: ThaesOfereode (talk · contribs) 00:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi 49p! Great album from a great band; thanks for doing so much work on it! Please see my notes below regarding fixes necessary to get this to GA status:

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	The prose needs a fair amount of work. I only marked the first instance of it (see first example below), but this entire article needs to be copy-edited for past tense; there are constant, inappropriate switches from past tense to narrative present tense (matching Gormely 2014?), which violates MOS:TENSE. You need to refer to all persons (band members, commentators, etc.) by their surname, except in the cases of Tim and Mike; I've cleaned up a few issues with that, but you should do the rest. Also, get rid of every instance "decided to" because it's unnecessary and clutters the prose. • Tim also meets Tim later met Victor Villarreal while skateboarding at Wheeling High School. Victor introduces Villarreal introduced Tim to his band, Toe Jam. – Past tense is necessary here. • The band Toe Jam contained two other players members at the time: It contained a neighbor of Victor, Jim, and the high school's football star running back, Jeff. – Awkward/confusing sentence. • Jim and Jeff decided to quit the band, but the remaining members overhauled the band, putting Sam on bass guitar while Mike took drums after being gifted a drum kit from his mother. – Doesn't this flow better? • The band would be chose the name "Cap'n Jazz" after Sam blurted [...] – WP:INTOTHEWOULDS • The band recorded at Idful Music Corporation, owned by Brad Wood, and with Casey Rice. – So did Casey Rice record with Cap'n Jazz or did Rice own the building with Brad Wood? Confusing syntax here. • Lyrically, Tim wrote most of the lyrics and recorded his vocals with [...] – WP:POSA • Release and promotion – Honestly, this album wasn't really promoted at all. This section is pretty much dedicated to the dissolution of the band after the album release more than anything else. Similar in nature to its lyrics, the arcane The album title consists [...] – Editorializing. If you really want to emphasize the odd nature of the album title, I would just write The album title is a non sequitur, consisting of [...], unless you can source someone noting its similar nature to the lyrics.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Violations of MOS:TENSE abound (as noted in 1a). Otherwise, everything else looks good.
2. Verifiable with no original research, as shown by a source spot-check:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	Looks good. Minor issue (though a little time-consuming), you need to time stamp your Staple source; it's like citing a book without citing the page number.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	• Despite concerns from other band members regarding their addiction, they took no action regarding the issue. – Cite or remove. • The break up of Cap'n Jazz hindered the album's promotion and the album shortly went out of print. – Ibid. • Similar in nature to its lyrics, the arcane album title consists of a combination of two sentence fragments that were inscribed on the album's spine. – Ibid. Source spot check: Kelley 1998 – Confirms publication of Analphabetapolothology in 1998 and published by Jade Tree, "regret and contempt" of van Bohlen, etc. There was a bit of a weird confusing sentence on one of the cites, but I read the interview and clarified it, so it's good to go. Conoley 2009 – Some FA reviewer might equivocate about it not mentioning the album, only Cap'n Jazz, but I'm not gonna. Looks good. Huey n.d. – Looks pretty good. Doesn't really mention lyrics specifically, but there's enough about the cryptic wordplay, etc. to understand why you cited it in certain spots. Gill 2017 – Mushrooms thing checks out. The lyrics ranged from inside jokes to abstruse lyrics that bordered on gibberish. – Both Cohen and Huey are cited here, but neither one of them mentions inside jokes or gibberish. Cohen calls them "unabashedly goofy" and "surrealist", which would be great additions to the page, and Huey calls the lyrics "cryptic wordplay and naïve", which would also be good. Where did the information about it being inside jokes or gibberish come from? Barker 2015 – Good here. Gormely 2014 – Confirms "roadie", Mike's calling Toe Jam "mundane", doesn't confirm mom bought drum set but the Chicago Tribune source does so all good)
	2c. it contains no original research.	I don't see anything that would violate this.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	Earwig marked one source as 43.2%, but it looks like the length of the album's full name caused it to freak out. Looks fine.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Good work here.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Presents the background, album, tour, and legacy and little else.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Presents conflicts in the band fairly, balances the some band members' distaste and reminiscence fairly.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	No conflict here.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	I see no issues here. "Little League" sample seems reasonable.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	Did a little clean up, but now all set.
	7. Overall assessment.	Overall, the content is correct and generally well-sourced, but the prose needs work. If I find anything else in the meantime, I can just fix it myself. If you have any questions, feel free to ping me and I'll try to get back to you. Thanks again for all the great work on this article; love seeing Midwest emo get some love on Wikipedia! ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:28, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

Hey ThaesOfereode! Thanks for the review! Looking forward to finish this by Sunday or so. I fixed 2a and 2b. 2a is something I realized after writing it, and was actually going to fix it by tomorrow before you started this review. It wasn't that time consuming as much of the article contains really just contains 10 minutes of the film.

I'll fix the prose in the coming days. I'll ping you when I feel confident I got most of it done (with me just realizing on how many times I repeat "decided to" lol) 49p (talk) 02:00, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode: Sorry for the delay, but I think most of the errors are cleared up. I think 1a still need a little bit of work but 1b, 2a, 2b should be all good.49p (talk) 16:14, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

@49p: No worries! Major improvement since the last time. I've done a little more me copy editing with fresh eyes. One thing did catch my eye though; the first source in the section Release doesn't seem to confirm that it garnered a favorable reception within the local midwestern emo scene. Can you point me to the sentence in the source if I just missed it? If not, we need to source or remove it. ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:49, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

Also, can we confirm that it was the "Midwestern emo scene" (i.e., the emo scene in the Midwest) or the "Midwest emo scene" (i.e., the scene for the genre called "Midwest emo")? ThaesOfereode (talk) 17:51, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

I swear I had sources for this claim, probably from independent zines like heartattaCk or maximum rocknroll but I don't. I removed it. If I do find the sources in question, it's relating to "the emo scene in the Midwest" and not the genre itself. I'll reinstate if I find it. 49p (talk) 03:16, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

@49p: Alright, sounds good. Drop me a ping when you think you've got 1a up to snuff and I'll come through to review again. ThaesOfereode (talk) 15:44, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode: I think I got most of 1a done unless I'm messing something big. Also, I added another source to the article (Grubbs 2018). It should be reliable and it's only used on a quote by von Bohlen. 49p (talk) 01:50, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

@ThaesOfereode: Just checking on this. it seems like both of us forgot about this review lol. Could you take a look at it? 49p (talk) 18:04, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

@49p: Sorry, I thought you weren't done yet; I promise I've been keeping my eye on it! This thing's really close, but I have a few closing notes:

• The music often uses irregular techniques that were uncommon in punk rock. – Like what? Need a (cited!) example or just remove it.
• Tim's cousin Nate Kinsella said the uniqueness of the songs made him assume that Tim "was a manic". – Needs a citation at the end since it's a direct quote.

Other than that, I think we're cooking with grease. I'll read it over once more while you make these adjustments, but this article has really come together nicely! ThaesOfereode (talk) 00:20, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.