Talk:Sherlockian game/Archive 1

Archive 1

This article is a cut and paste from Sherlock Holmes, where the original text has been reduced to a stub under the subsection "influence on fans". The only change I made was to the opening few words so as to clearly reference Sherlock Holmes.Samatarou 16:43, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Renaming

It has been suggested the article be renamed. When I carved off the material into its own article (in accordance with recommendations made by reviewers of the main Sherlock Holmes article) the title I chose was pretty ad hoc, so I'm sure it could be improved on. One idea would be to change it to use the title of the redirect page "Holmesian speculation", since I believe this is an accepted term for this literary genre or hobby. Samatarou 19:34, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

I suggest that it could be renamed The Great Game (Sherlock Holmes), as that's what it's called by those who play it.[1] —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:47, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

In fact, I think I'll propose that move. See below. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:08, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

More Addings ?

What about further developments in this page of the following topics: Sherlock Holmes ( and relatives ) & hitorical personnalities ( eg Jack the Ripper ) or events, Sherlock Holmes and historical mysteries (eg the Mary Celeste) , Sherlock Holmes and other famous fictional characters ( eg Fu Manchu & Dracula ) in canonics & non-canonics ??PHILTHEGUNNER60 16:25 , 28 May 2009

I think that the key should be whether such pairings have been discussed in a reliable source in non-fiction format. Simply writing a "Sherlock Holmes meets the Phantom of the Opera" fiction doesn't constitute playing the Game, in my opinion; however, writing an article under the conceit that Sherlock Holmes and the Phantom of the Opera were both real people does. And yes, I realize that under that rationale the Doctor Who novel shouldn't be mentioned here, but I can't bring myself to remove it, due to personal prejudice. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:08, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved to Sherlockian game. The Great Game (Sherlock Holmes) created as a redirect. Jenks24 (talk) 04:29, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

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Sherlock Holmes speculation → The Great Game (Sherlock Holmes) – This article is not about all speculation about Sherlock Holmes (of which there is lots, in both reliable and unreliable sources, on a panoply of subjects). It's about a specific form of speculation by Sherlockian enthusiasts, based on the conceit that Holmes and Watson were real people. This exercise is called "The Great Game" or "The Game" by those who practice it; see this NPR story for evidence. I posit that calling the article The Great Game (Sherlock Holmes) is more accurate and more specific than the current title. One small drawback: it would require a disambiguating hatnote to distinguish it from The Great Game (Sherlock), an episode of the recent BBC series (which I believe was titled after this Sherlockian pursuit). But I still think it's an improvement. Relisted. Jenks24 (talk) 06:23, 15 June 2012 (UTC) Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:08, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Edited to add: Another alternative would be The Game (Sherlock Holmes). Indeed, there's already a pointer from the disambiguation page The Game to this page. But I think that "The Great Game" is a bit more specific, and probably more widely used. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:25, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Comment: I'd like to see a bit more evidence that this is the most common name. There is no such capitalisation in Sayers, but I suppose in this context she constitutes a primary source. However, one might as well call it Sherlockianism. StAnselm (talk) 09:58, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I must confess that I do not have a copy of Sayers' essay to hand. My recollection is that she had more to say about "the game" (capitalized or not) than is quoted here. But in addition to the NPR story, we have these online sources already in the article:

• Tor.com: "Fans of Holmes call it “The Game,” and it is perhaps the most enjoyable aspect of reading Doyle’s detective stories. "
• The Straight Dope "Dorothy L. Sayers, herself known for writing the Peter Wimsey mysteries, set forth the rules of the Game."

I also found in The World of Sherlock Holmes by Martin Fido (Adams Media, 1998, ISBN 1-58062-046-9) a two-page essay titled "The Sherlockian Game", which begins, "The great Sherlockian game was invented by Fr. Ronald Knox." That could, of course, be used to support either of the titles I suggested or the one suggested by StAnselm. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 12:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Or, indeed, Sherlockian game. StAnselm (talk) 23:53, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

• Move to Sherlockian game. In fact, this is my preferred option now. I think it does have to have the word "game" in it (rather than "speculation") - but I think the name is going to be a description rather than a title. I guess I'm disputing the rather wide-ranging claim that Fans of Holmes call it “The Game”. The tor and straightdope articles don't strike me as representing reliable scholarship, whereas the Fido article probably does. StAnselm (talk) 00:36, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

By the way, Sherlockian game has 67 results in Google Books.

I'm OK with that. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 04:35, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

• Comment: I believe this would be the primary topic for "The Great Game"; almost certainly the episode is not. Powers ^T 02:34, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Well, actually, I think that The Great Game (as in the British/Russian rivalry in Central Asia) is the primary topic. One might argue that the Sherlockian game is more primary than the television episode, but either way it will need disambiguation if the page is moved to some form of "The Great Game". (This might be another argument in favor of Sherlockian game. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:35, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.