Talk:Shel Silverstein/Archive 1

Archive 1

Misc.

So now we know that Homestar Runner is a fan! How do you type with no arms, Homestar?

The article says that Silverstein started as a Playboy cartoonist in 1952, but the magazine didn't begin publication until December 1953. Can anyone correct Silverstein's starting date? --Metropolitan90 June 29, 2005 03:17 (UTC)

nd he had to be forced to write children's books Does this article need some citation, or is it already properly cited? 71.175.128.253 20:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

From the article...

• "He also co-wrote several songs with David Allen Coe, including the controversial 'Nigger Fucker.'"

Is that true? The only sources I can find online saying that Silverstein helped David Allen Coe write that song seem to be other wikis and Wikipedia mirrors. --Aquillion 06:17, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Good question! Coe is listed (on the Wikipedia David Allan Coe page as having written that song and 3 others in collaboration with Silverstein, but the BMI database doesn't mention Silverstein's collaboration on any of them. Both Coe's titles and Silversteins are in the database, but I never see them mentioned together.

Can anyone do better? --Steve Rapaport 10:25, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, I trawled through allmusic.com, and Silverstein did write a couple of songs for Coe, most notably "If You Ever Think Of Me At All", but none of the ones mentioned. Certainly, it was nowhere near as important as Silverstein's collaborations with Cash or Dr. Hook & The Medicine Show, which really merits a mention. RMoloney (talk) 18:01, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

There is no way he wrote "Nigger Fucker." Deleted until evidence is given. 65.115.176.43 15:55, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

How about mentioning the fact that the rumour exists but is probably not true, to avoid people (like I did) re-adding the claim that he wrote Nigger Fucker? If it's been established that he wrote some songs with Coe, how about something like this:

"He also co-wrote a number of songs with David Allan Coe. Some sources say he co-wrote Coe's controversial song Nigger Fucker, but this is disputed." (Entheta 00:11, 20 February 2006 (UTC))

http://www.banned-width.com claims to be a complete list of his adult songs, and it is not listed there. Turtleboy 00:32, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Is Shel Silverstein an African American?

you don't get more jewish than Shel Silverstein. what an inane question from IP 66.30.26.109 above. --Snottily 12:39, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Considering it seems the only photo used in his press releases are B&W photos like in this article, it's not easy to tell. Furthermore, "African American" and "Jewish" are not mutually exclusive states. Given that the answer to his question is not apparent in the article, or a quick Google search, his question is perfectly understandable, and could have done without such an asinine response. Hell, I've also wondered what ethnicities might be present in his ancestry, based upon the photos on the book jackets, and I know that I'mnot the only one. --Reverend Loki 18:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a common rumor that he's African-American, generated by the cover image. But he's just Jewish (Ashkenazi) Mad Jack 22:10, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

It says that he was born in 1430 in the sidebar. I can't edit it though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.236.103.122 (talk) 23:57, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Birthdate

On Find-A-Grave he was born in 1930 (as seen on his grave), is this right or is WP right? Lincher 03:19, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

The date in the block conflicts with the date given in the main text. What is right?????????????????????????????????????????????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.19.53.75 (talk) 01:48, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

The New York Times obit says he was born in 1932 . Which date is correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.35.11.115 (talk) 14:34, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

1930 is correct, according to Lisa Rogak's biography of Silverstein (page 4, which you can currently read in google's online preview ). You can also find the 1930 date in Cook County's vital records database (along with one other Sheldon Silverstein born in 1927), and in the Social Security Death Index. --dave pape (talk) 15:17, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

Confusing as the NY Times and the UK's Independent said 67 when he died in 1999, Chicago Trib has 1930[1] and also see [2]. Seems as though 1930 is correct. Dougweller (talk) 19:11, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Sentence needs rewritten

From the Personal bio, there is the sentence: "Shoshanna's mother Susan just 5 years later: June 29, 1975, also in Baltimore. " Even in context, it doesn't make much sense. I'd fix, but I have no idea what it is trying to say. --Reverend Loki 05:19, 17 July 2006 (UTE)

The Missing Piece Meets the Big O

Does anyone know why The Missing Piece Meets the Big O redirects here? All of the other books have there own pages, even if most of them are still blank. Yoyogod 18:15, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

It might just be that the page hasn't been written yet. 71.175.119.156 00:52, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Date inaccuracy

Shel was born in 1930 but the article states that in 1956, he started crafting for Playboy at the age of 21.

Critiques section (removed)

Some people loved and still love Silverstein's work; however, some did not care for one word of it. C. Anita Tarr, a published writer, did not seem to care for Shel's work at all: "Silverstein may appeal to children's everyday situations, but he simply does not pay as much attention to each word as does Prelutsky." She sums up her dismissal of his work as "inappropriate to the spirit of his work." Some called Shel's work abundant in excess, and did not care for how many words he seemingly crammed into each poem. But anyone who knew Shel would say that he didn't really care what those kinds of people thought. He lived not caring about his image and lived his life to bring laughter and happiness to others--and he was happy, as anyone could see in each of his works, all of those that he did.

Playboy in 1957 not only loved their "Uncle Shelby", but they also bragged about their "whiskered wit." They referred to him as a "bearded and unpredictable bohemian". Indeed, Shel had that unique look about him; the bald head, the full beard and his pictures never really seemed to say "friendly children's poet." Jean Shepherd, a disc jockey, sometimes writer, and good friend of Silverstein's, says in his forward that Silverstein is:

"Neanderthalic: stocky, bearded, vaguely stooped, and unbelievably sloppy. Yet there is also a distinct air of imperious Edwardian dignity about him. He has a New Testament face that is strong and hawk-like and that gives the impression that he is about to build an ark. Which is probably true."

Then there are those who thought Shel was a great artist, someone who drew fun drawings for each poem, an amazing artist for words and had an abundant talent for song.

His friends

The section title 'His friends' seems to have close to noting to do with friendship. Perhaps the title should be changed? 71.141.116.27 17:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I so agree with you.TommyCT 20:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC)TommyC

Critiques

This reads more like an editorial piece than an encyclopedia article. bananapunch

I agree, this section is completely inappropriate. C. Anita Tarr is apparently an associate professor of English at Illinois State University, but that is hardly notable enough to cite as a true critic. Not to mention that Playboy's supposed comments are not even critiques. Whoever wrote this section did not site their sources, as well; I would be very tempted to do away with the entire thing. It's mostly POV and nonsense. Comments, anyone? Maria 23:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Heck, this looked like I was reading a 9 year old's opinionated collaboration of nonsensical gibberish. Despite my self contradiction, this section needs clean-up. Hyukan 06:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I don't know if it would even work if it were cleaned up. As I stated above, half of it isn't even critiquing Silverstein's work, and half of it is gibberish. I saw that someone had removed it (which I agreed with), and then someone reverted it as if it were vandalism. I wouldn't have done the same. I for one strongly believe it just needs to be removed for the sake of the article. It's horrid. Maria 19:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Needs a total rewrite.. as it's been a couple weeks I removed the section and pasted it here, for reference. Rhobite 06:13, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I think the article is better off without it. -gohlkus 16:28, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

German sites

Are these German sites here for a reason? Are they references? If so, can we find alternate English language sites with the same information? akruble 08:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

You won't find alternate English language sites with the same information. The German sites are very interesting. --Popmuseum 12:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Why is this article so frequently vandalized?

• Seriously. What did Shel Silverstein ever do to deserve that? :( JuJube 19:49, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Indented line:

Interview section

The interview section doesn't make any sense. Look at the dates. I'm not sure if they are particularly relevant in any case. tommy.rousse

Shel Silverstein lived in a San Francisco houseboat at one time

I found some great information about Shel Silverstein that should be included in this Wikipedia article. At one time Shel lived in a balloon barge (floating boat house) that was made by the sculpture Christopher Roberts. Christopher Roberts turned houseboats into works of art. Christopher created the houseboat in the waters of the Gate Five Sausalito Harbor area. Gate Five became Haight-Ashbury-on-the-water in the early sixties. 18:20, 12 August 2007 (UTC) Catmehitable

Eight children?

He had eight children? Is this right? I thought he had 2. If he had 8 why are only two mentioned specifically? That must be wrong.AmericanGuru 03:57, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Mad Magazine

I seem to recall that Shel did some work for Mad Magazine in the 60's. Can anyone confirm (or refute) that, and if so, put it in the article? --Nibios 07:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

A search of the 1999 CD-ROM collection "Totally Mad" shows that his work was parodied a couple of times during his lifetime (both times later than the '60s) but that he was never credited as a contributor. You might be thinking of Lou Silverstone. Richard K. Carson (talk) 05:40, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

The Noodle and his Kaboodle - a fake?

I know a lot about Shel Silverstein but i've never heard or read about an album by Shel Silverstein named The Noodle and his Kaboodle (Cadet Records) (1959). It seems to be a fake. That's why i canceled it. --Popmuseum 12:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

No doubt, it's a fake! What did Shel Silverstein ever do to deserve that vandalism? --Popmuseum (talk) 10:26, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Lisa Rogak's biography: A Boy Named Shel

Published now: Lisa Rogak: A Boy Named Shel. The Life and Times of Shel Silverstein (2007). ISBN: 0312353596. --Popmuseum (talk) 10:22, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

I've read it now - Lisa Rogak's "A Boy Named Shel" stays / keeps far behind the expectations. Too bad! --Popmuseum (talk) 07:18, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Interview with Lisa Rogak: The Many Sides of Shel Silverstein 10 Minutes-Interview (MP3-File, 5 MB) --Popmuseum (talk) 16:48, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Ballad of Lucy Jordan

It says in the text that he wrote it for Marianne faithful. But that is wrong: The Ballad Of Lucy Jordan, although written in '73 by prolific songwriter, artist, poet and storyteller Shel Silverstein, was not officially released until 1975. Surprisingly to many, the original version was released by soft-rock band Dr Hook, for whom Shel wrote more than one hit, including Sylvia's Mother and Cover Of The Rolling Stone. Unlike these two songs, however, The Ballad Of Lucy Jordan made little impact on the charts.

1979 saw the release of Marianne Faithfull's album Broken English, which not only revitalised Marianne's career but also breathed new life into The Ballad Of Lucy Jordan. It is Marianne's version which is considered classic, while Dr Hook's initial outing is a curiosity for fans to seek out. It's happened before - Ed Cobb's Tainted Love belongs entirely to Soft Cell now - and it'll happen again. Additionally, Lee Hazelwood has provided a country version. Out of the three, quite simply, Marianne's version is the best... Copied from: http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=508648 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.204.65.2 (talk) 09:20, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Smothers Brothers

I always thought Shel wrote for the Smothers Brothers, especially The Slitherdee. There's no mention of this in the article. Was I wrong? —Preceding unsigned comment added by NoMinorChords (talk • contribs) 07:12, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

The Giving Tree

The Giving Tree seems to spark an enormous range of reactions in people. Some think that it's a heartwarming tale of devotion, others that it is a satire on a sick co-dependent relationship, still others that it is a metaphor about man's indifference to nature. Is there any evidence from those who knew Shel about what he intended? —Preceding unsigned comment added by NoMinorChords (talk • contribs) 07:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

First book published

The caption beneath Grab Your Socks! says it was his first book, but I have a copy of an earlier book, TAKE TEN, published by Pacific Stars and Stripes in 1955, printed in Tokyo Japan by Kyoya Printing Company, with a Forward by "Robert D. Sweeney, Pacific Stars and Stripes, March, 1955" -- On the last page, in the section "About the artist" the following is printed: "... He is a P.F.C. This is his first book." GeneBi (talk) 01:33, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Cartoonist for Stars & Stripes

When I got to Japan early in 1955, Shel was still doing cartoons for Stars & Stripes. Of course they were hilarious. I'm amazed that this article doesn't mention those cartoons or that part of his life. I'm sure that was his first book, and I will try to locate it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senor Reek (talk • contribs) 15:12, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I have a Silverstein book in soft cover

My copy of Uncle Shelby's ABZ Book is the one from the 60's, (I think it has been reprinted) and it's in soft cover, so contrary to what the article says, at least one book was published in soft cover. Farmer in the sky (talk) 21:39, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Yet more vandalism

At least, that's what I assume labelling him as a "drug dealer" in the infobox is. 91.105.54.168 (talk) 22:15, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Some enterprising soul appears to have inserted the text "BUTT ." into the second paragraph of the Songs section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.56.219.28 (talk) 15:18, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

A bit quote heavy

This article seems to rely too much on tying together a bunch of quotes rather than writing an original article, particularly the Children's Books section, which is almost entirely quotes. Hell, it doesn't even mention Where the Sidewalk Ends, which is a huge oversight. I'm not Silverstein expert by any stretch of the imagination; is there someone knowledgeable on the topic who could expand this? Maybe even remove some of the quotes and replace it with regular text? -R. fiend (talk) 14:38, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Uncle Shelby

I have just read the commentary about Shel's bio as it appears here. I was lucky. I am one of the few people who actually called him Uncle Shelby. Of course, he was not biologically my uncle. But from the age of 6 to 10, he was Uncle Shelby. He actually told me to call him that and when I questioned Mom about it ("But, Mom, he isn't really my uncle, is he?"), she said it was just an honorary thing and Mom and Shel just laughed at my question. This conversation took place at my house. My father was the editor of the Stars and Stripes and I lived in Tokyo during these years. Shel worked for my dad and did the cartoons for the Stripes. Even at 6 or 7 years old, I knew that this was different and brilliant. One commentator here inquires about some of those cartoons and they should, indeed, be explored and archived. One that I remember, and as my Dad tells it, got Dad, as the editor, and Shel, into trouble with the military brass. Uncle Shelby has drawn two privates, scrubbing the barracks floor. Standing over them is a big burly sargeant. One private whispers to the other, "When the s-a-r-g-e-a-n-t leaves, we can stop". As Dad tells the story, he and Shel were marched up to the top brass to explain why they were insulting the non-coms. The other cartoon that Uncle Shelby did that I remember was the classic military line of privates, all just standing there in line, except one of the privates actually has two heads. An angry sargeant is pointing to this private with the two heads and yelling, "Hey, you! You are the one messing up my head count!" Uncle Shelby's famous cartoon of the two guys in chains with the caption "Now here is my plan" was always one of Dad's favorites. During the years in Tokyo, Dad and Mom and Shel and the rest of the crazy staff at Stripes would, shall I be blunt here, party quite a bit. There is a photo my Dad has of Shel at my house standing directly next to a painting of Jesus that my Mom had on the wall. Shel then had his beard and moustache, but also had a full head of hair in those days. Shel has assumed the exact expression and stance of the portrait of Jesus. One of the staff photographers from Stripes took a fabulous photo of this scene, while Mom,Dad and the rest of the staff howled with laughter. (I must tell the commentator above that no, Shel was not African-American, he was indeed Jewish). The other great photo of Uncle Shelby is one with he and my dad with the his arm around Dad's shoulder and Dad gripping a huge bottle of Saki. Another staff member, Al Ricketts, sits at a typwriter, in front of Shel and Dad. This photo I have scanned and is in my computer. The oddness is that it is Shel with a full head of hair, plus the beard and moustache. Later, in the Sixties, Dad had relocated back to the States and Uncle Shelby was working for Playboy and began his climb to fame. However, he would send Dad first editions of his books. Dad still has the first edition of "Uncle Shelby's ABZ Book" with a note on the inside cover asking how we (my brother and sisters) are doing. If you know this book, the letter E is for 'Ernie' the monster that lives in the ceiling. Dad roared with laughter at this. I asked Dad, "What is this so funny?" Dad explained. It is an inside joke for those that worked at the Stripes. The mean colonel, the military brass mentioned here above, had an office above them,"in the ceiling..." Dad explained, and his first name was 'Ernie'. One of the next books that arrived was "Lafcadio, the Lion who shot back". At this point in time I was in high school and was doing competitive public speaking. One of the categories was humorous interpretation. I realized that the first chapter of Lafcadio (also the name of someone who worked at the Stripes during the late Fifties) would be a perfect piece. Dad contacted Uncle Shelby to ask his permission to use it. Uncle Shelby said OK (Dad was then in law school nights and realized there might be legal issues with me using this piece without Uncle Shelby's OK). I wrote him a thank you note. That year, using the first chapter of "Lafcadio," I was the state champ in public speaking. While I did the performance, the true champ was Uncle Shelby himself. My next Uncle Shelby moment came when I was in college. Shel was doing work for Playboy. I was in a dorm mates room and there was a Playboy (not that I would ever purchase one, of course....) that had Shel in the nudist colony. With the classic Uncle Shelby humor, there was the cartoon. Shel is sitting, stark naked, on the bench with a naked woman sitting facing him, but she has a sligtly upset look on her face. And she is only wearing a bra, nothing else. The caption reads: "Shel, Shel, yes I really do like you a lot, but please, please don't ask me to put on any more clothes". I am standing in the dorm, surrounded by college buddies and I say, "Oh my Gosh! Its Uncle Shelby! In Playboy!" and after a few "Who are you talking about?" kind of questions, I try and explain about Tokyo, Dad and Uncle Shelby.....to a room full on incredulous faces and outright, "you are full of it.." comments. I would have been believed more if I said I was dating the centerfold. "No, really, this is my Uncle Shelby..." I went on. My college buddies weren't buying this at all. Nor did they believe a year or so later when I tried to explain that I knew the guy that wrote "A Boy Named Sue". Even Dad was astounded at Shel's music career. Dad saw Shel on a few occassions over the years at some reunions here in the States of old Stars and Stripes staff. But his best reunion with Uncle Sheby came in the Sixties when Dad had a meeting in Chicago. Shel gives Dad an address where they should meet. Dad arrives at the address, rings the door bell and the door is opened by a Playboy bunny. "Oh, right" she says, "you're looking for Shel. Come on in!" Dad, of course, is trying to stay calm, but is then escorted into Heff's mansion, to the indoor pool where bunnies cavort in bikinis, and there is Uncle Shelby with a bunny on each arm. "Don't be impressed, Pat!" Shel says. It didn't matter. Dad had another great Shel story to tell me when he got back. My brother has a few Uncle Shelby stories himself, one when he was in the Marines in the Seventies. But I'll let him cover that territory.

Bill Carroll BillySteve (talk) 13:51, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
wscbos@comcast.net BillySteve (talk) 13:51, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Family Guy reference to one of his books

On the television show Family Guy (episode: "Barely Legal"), Glenn Quagmire gives Meg Griffin the book The Missing Piece to help her in her path through adolescence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.244.198 (talk) 08:01, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

To add as a reference made:

On the television show Family Guy (episode: "Barely Legal"), Quagmire gives Meg a copy of the book The Missing Piece to help her in her path through adolescence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.244.198 (talk) 08:03, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

First Name ?

The biography on Amazon.com "written by the author" says that his first name was "Shelby," and not "Sheldon".

Modern Family reference

Manny Delgado eulogizes his pet turtle, Shel Turtlestein from "Truth Be Told". Modern Family. Season 1. Episode 17. March 10, 2010. ABC. --Javaweb (talk) 09:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)Javaweb

His Death

I'm confused, did he die on May 8/9 or 10? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.179.3.200 (talk) 00:19, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Moved from category page "Category:File-Class Comics articles"

Shel Silverstein was one of the few truly positives in my life raising two wonderful children. His harmless and innocent poems allowed my boy, Orca, and my girl Willow, to trust books as a good thing. I was 60 years old when I first found out that he was involved with music. I heard Sylvia's Mother first in Tucson when I was, maybe, twenty years old, in Tucson. I LIVED it ten years later and have been (pretilly) happy for thirty years. Thank you, dr John. and bless you Shel Silverstein. I believe in nothing but human commonality and spirit. Daniel— Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.154.110 (talk • contribs) 15:28, February 23, 2013‎

Not very scholarly, folks.

An introductory blurb in a book is a FOREWORD, not a 'forward' as stated at least twice on this page. 76.199.2.92 (talk) 02:36, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

This is a talk page...a discussion. The article itself is correct on this matter.  Frank  |  talk  04:50, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

The Perfect High?

I was looking for this work (the perfect high) on the Shel Silverstein page to clarify what I know about it. It seems like all I can find about its origin is in rumors and hazy recollections. I've heard before that it was made as a eulogy for an overdosed family member- mostly thought to be one of his children. It seems that his daughter certainly didn't die of an overdose, and the article isn't very clear about the whereabouts or living state of his son. The work certainly seems like that of Silverstein, but it doesn't seem to be popularly recognized. Can anyone clarify? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blakeb43 (talk • contribs) 23:44, 26 December 2013 (UTC)