Talk:Shady Grove (song)

["Harlan, Kentucky"]]

Is it possible that the Harlan referred to in the song could be Harlan, Kentucky?

Probably does refer to Harlan, KY. See also below, in "18th-century?" section, the word 'Ireland' as precedent to 'Harlan'.Acwilson9 (talk) 21:36, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some versions of (purported) antecedent song "Matty Groves" refer to "Lord Arlan". Acwilson9 (talk) 22 October 2017 (UTC) Acwilson9 (talk) 03:50, 19 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

["all known versions"]

There should be a list of all known versions of the song. I like it enough to do it myself, but I don't think it's as easy as that. (X24actor (talk) 22:56, 14 October 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Not practical. As noted in article (and its history) somebody (unknown) at some time (unknown) counted about +/- 300 (unverified) variant stanzas. And, per some (external) folk music listservs & blogs, more versions keep being created. This very popular song lends itself to in-performance spur-of-moment doggerel, some of it risque or obscene, some of which might then appear on youtube, etc. Acwilson9 (talk) 23:28, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

18th-century?

I can't find any references to an original version. How do we know this is from the colonial period? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.131.17.84 (talk) 02:53, 1 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

(I've been looking.) Despite claims on the web (and in Ritchie & Orr book), it's not clear how or when the very old British murder ballad "Matty Groves" was transformed into the courting/seduction/(stalking ?)/wishful ballad "Shady Grove". It doesn't help that both may have been sung with a variety of tunes, on both sides of the Atlantic. (I have read in a blog, but not verified, a claim that Martin Carthy told an audience that Fairport Convention (of UK) cribbed their tune for their "Matty Groves" (studio recording 1969; performed live ever since) from a US recorded version of "Shady Grove", possibly Doc Watson's! Would Fairport Convention's Simon Nicol or Ashley Hutchings still reliably recall where they found the tune, back in (the psychedelic days of) 1969?) Acwilson9 (talk) 23:28, 22 October 2017 (UTC); Acwilson9 (talk) 21:44, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to me that Ritchie & Orr may have got backwards their first clause of their first sentence about 'Shady Grove':

[Fiona Ritchie & Doug Orr (2014). Wayfaring Strangers: The Musical Voyage from Scotland and Ulster to Appalachia. Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press. pp. 183+. ISBN 978-1-4696-1822-7.]

"The well-known Appalachian ballad 'Shady Grove' originated as 'Matty Groves' combined with the melody of 'Little Margaret' [could it instead be that 'Shady Grove' started with the words of 'Little Margaret' combined with the melody of 'Matty Groves'? ACWilson99], both from Scotland, describing the true love of a young man's life and his hopes they will wed. Its popularity resulted in the emergence of over 300 stanzas [says who? ACWilson99], and the song was recorded by a striking assortment of artists, including Jean Ritchie, the Kingston Trio, Jerry Garcia, Bill Monroe, Crooked Still, Taj Mahal, and The Chieftans. The refrain of one older version [which? whose? ACWilson99] is 'Shady Grove my little love I'm going back to Ireland,' while a Kentucky rhyming variant substitutes 'I'm going back to Harlan.' Doc Watson, the flat-pick guitar virtuoso from Deep Gap, North Carolina, recorded a vintage rendition with..." Acwilson9 (talk) 21:36, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dave Swarbrick, cited in Heylin's 2000 Sandy Denny biog, says: " 'Matty Groves', Sandy and I put the words together from Child. We put it to an American tune..." - the latter clearly Shady Grove. I have made appropriate adjustments to both this article and the one for Liege and Lief. As discussed on various forums (mudcat etc.), there is no other association whatsoever between the two songs. Regards - Tony Tony 1212 (talk) 21:32, 23 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tony: It appears that you also did the same in the Matty Groves article. Thanks. Acwilson9 (talk) 22:19, 13 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"WikiProject Songs" template

Added template Acwilson9 (talk) 23:02, 22 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]