Talk:Seven Days in New Crete

	Speculative fiction portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Science Fiction, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of science fiction on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Science FictionWikipedia:WikiProject Science FictionTemplate:WikiProject Science Fictionscience fiction articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Novels: Sci-fi Mid‑importance

	Novels portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Novels, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to novels, novellas, novelettes and short stories on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the general Project discussion to talk over new ideas and suggestions.NovelsWikipedia:WikiProject NovelsTemplate:WikiProject Novelsnovel articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by Science fiction task force.

Genre

This article currently has a number of inadequacies, starting with whether the book is even really "science fiction" at all in any meaningful sense; will be trying to fix it up. AnonMoos (talk) 14:45, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's no real future science which is a part of New Cretan society, but there is "magic", which in Venn-Thomas' experience definitely does sometimes work (though there's no really spectacular manifestation of magic until the whirlwind at the very end...). AnonMoos (talk) 20:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Post-apocalyptic?

Not sure whether to classify this as post-apocalyptic literature or not -- some kind of future war fought with advanced technologies with devastating effects on some parts of the world (especially coastal China) did take place, but technological civilization didn't collapse as a result of this war; it went on for a fairly long time afterwards before vanishing amidst general malaise and lack of confidence. AnonMoos (talk) 17:13, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. title

The edition of the book that I have is titled "Watch the Northwind [one word] Rise" -- AnonMoos (talk) 19:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Symbolic image

Made an image which combines various symbols described or implied in the book, in order to be symbolic of New Cretan society overall, but it might be considered an "original synthesis"... AnonMoos (talk) 18:18, 11 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For a more strictly "encyclopedic" image, maybe somebody could scan the U.S. paperback cover showing a naked man looking up at a naked woman entwined with a large snake, both of them partially shielded from view by a green cloak-like thing... AnonMoos (talk) 18:22, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I uploaded this in 2012, but it was replaced as a fair-use cover image by a scan of the first-edition cover in 2015. AnonMoos (talk) 23:01, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

population proportions

Statistics are strictly forbidden, but the approximate relative sizes of the five "estates" (or the perception of the relative sizes) are probably roughly indicated by the delegation which each village sends to the twice-yearly ceremony at the royal capital -- one captain, one poet-magician, twelve commoners, six servants, and two recorders. AnonMoos (talk) 19:36, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There seem to be some recorders for every village, but the "Record House" at Horned Lamb serves five villages, so presumably not every village would have such a full-fledged croquet-and-tulips establishment... AnonMoos (talk) 07:15, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Crete"

There seems to be little direct borrowing from Minoan culture, except the symbolic use of the labrys (called labra in the New Cretan language), and the Snake Goddess outfit worn by the queen (nymph of the seventh month) during the ceremony... AnonMoos (talk) 10:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

plot summary

There's some kind of plot summary at http://www.trivia-library.com/b/utopias-in-science-fiction-robert-graves-seven-days-in-new-crete.htm , but I'm hesistant to link to it, because it contains significant errors, such as saying that the novel is set in England, which is most definitely not the case (in fact, there is hardly any mention of England under New Cretan society at all, except for references to the recent discovery of the Liverpool trove of Christmas cards...). AnonMoos (talk) 13:32, 27 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't added any plot summary (except very briefly for the last few chapters) or dramatis personae to the article so far, but they might be a useful addition. AnonMoos (talk) 18:07, 13 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

language

The New Cretan language is based on Catalan, with heavy English influence (and less significant apparent Celtic and Slavic influences), so since Venn-Thomas's mother was Catalan and his father British, he finds himself starting to understand the language rather quickly (though his ability to actively speak it in a way that the New Cretans can understand it lags behind, as would be expected). "Mari" and "Ana" were probably intended to be quasi-compromise forms between the Catalan and English versions of the names "Mary" and "Anne"... AnonMoos (talk) 22:54, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Matriarchy

The New Cretan society being a quasi-Matriarchy doesn't mean that men are excluded from all positions of leadership and authority (in fact the members of the estate of Captains are mostly male, along with a relatively few unmarried women), but they're mainly low-level maintainers or enforcers of traditional customs and established verities (this includes the Captains and local priests) or have a rather strictly ceremonial role (i.e. the king). For guidance in dealing with new and unprecedented situations outside the traditional customs, people mainly look to the poet-magicians, and most of the individuals in Dunrena with non-isolating special statuses seem to be women... AnonMoos (talk) 16:36, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Baird Searles

He wrote an overall positive review of Seven Days in New Crete in the May 1983 issue of Isaac Asimov's Science Fiction Magazine ("On Books"), but it's hard to see how it can be used as a reference to this article, because of some carelessness with details. So Searles says that New Crete has a "rigid caste system", despite the fact that Graves went to some length to make it clear that New Crete does not have a "rigid caste system", at least in the traditional Hindu sense. To start with, the Captains are actually a sub-estate of the Commons, and estate membership is by no means strictly hereditary. And while members of different estates don't intermix socially in everyday life very much, there is no hierarchical ranking of superior and inferior, and there are occasions when the social barriers come down (Tuesday "wars", Friday love-affairs, after retirement to elderhood, certain religious festivals, etc.)... AnonMoos (talk) 12:48, 5 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

David Pringle

David Pringle has a two-page write-up of this book in Modern Fantasy: The 100 Best Novels, but it doesn't seem to be usable as a source for this article (and it's not clear that Pringle understands that "sympathy" is a partial replacement for sex only in the case of the poet-magician estate, the smallest of the five social groupings). AnonMoos (talk) 22:49, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

W.H.G. Armytage

Found another two-page write-up in Yesterday's Tomorrows: A Historical Survey of Future Societies by W.H.G. Armytage (1968). It's a fairly basic book-report type summary, focusing on the events that led up to the formation of New Cretan society (and for some reason spells the protagonist's name as "Wenn-Thomas"), but I may be able to make some use of it as a reference... AnonMoos (talk) 22:58, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]