Talk:Sergeant major

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Untitled

Perhaps a note (or even a WikiProject) about the Dutch rank of Sergeant-Majoor?

Pleural Form

I know in the US more then one Sergeant Major is refered to as Sergeants Major and as such updated the US section. I was wondering if it was the same for the other parts of the world. Mikemill 17:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

US ARMY E8 in an E9 slot

In the text there is a statement that a "First Sergeant" could hold the position of a battalion or higher Sergeant Major or Command Sergeant Major".

It has never been my experience that a "First Sergeant" (E-8) would hold the position of a battalion (or above) Sergeant Major or Command Sergeant Major. In that case the soldier would wear the rank of Master Sergeant (E-8). The only time a soldier would wear the rank of "First Sergeant" is as a company/battery/troop First Sergeant. I would edit the text but there may be an exception I'm not aware of having retired from the US Army in 2000.Greenbomb101 (talk) 16:20, 13 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Totally correct. A 1SG would not be assigned in a SGM or CSM slot unless it was a case where the CSM or SGM was on temporary duty out of the area or was in some other way going to be unavailable for a short period of time. Typically the senior E-8 in the battalion would take over as CSM/SGM regardless of whether he was a 1SG or MSG, unless the battalion had an actual E-9 as the Ops SGM. If the E-8 was going to be assigned as the CSM or SGM full-time or for an extended period he would be always be a MSG, because the rank of 1SG is pegged strictly as a company's senior NCO and as such is an appointment rather than a permanent rank. The only way it can be awarded permanently is if the soldier retires as a 1SG and is able to get it on his paperwork. --AGB, SFC, USA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.27.1.3 (talk) 20:47, 31 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

table

if you look at the other ranks (i.e. Sergeant), there is a table of Common Military Ranks. why isn't it here? Rashad9607 (talk) 08:45, 27 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New South African Warrant Officer Ranks

The level 1 - 4 appointments for Warrant Officers were replaced by new substantive ranks on 1st June 2008:

Master Chief Warrant Officer (formerly level 1)
Senior Chief Warrant Officer (formerly level 2)
Chief Warrant Officer (formerly level 3)
Master Warrant Officer (formerly level 4A)
Senior Warrant Officer (formerly level 4)

The WO1 and WO2 ranks remain as before.

http://www.dcc.mil.za/bulletins/Files/2008/61bulletin2008.pdf

See also 'South African Soldier, September 2008, page 17 http://www.dcc.mil.za/sasoldier/2008/Sep2008.pdf --92.8.106.152 (talk) 17:53, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Commonwealth Sergeants Major

Would it not make sense for a commonwealth armies section to exist, detailling the very similar positions of sergeants major in such forces - with a sub section to detail any country/service specific information? The UK and Canada sections in particular are both quite long and contain much the same information.Jellyfish dave (talk) 15:59, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sergeant majors in the Commonwealth, not sergeants major, which appears to be pretty much exclusively American. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:22, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Cavalary Sejeant Major?

"The full title of sergeant major fell out of use until the latter part of the 18th century, when it began to be applied to the senior non-commissioned officer of an infantry battalion or cavalry regiment." Was the term Sejeant Major (historical spelling) used in the cavalry at that time? My understanding is that is was a historical infantry rank dating from when they were a general officer in charch of the infantry - hence the use of Corporal Major in the modern British Household Cavalry? Dainamo (talk) 16:31, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Army Cadet Force

Am I right in thinking that Sergeants Major (instructor) in the ACF are actually a rank, rather than an appointment as they would be in the Army? Jellyfish dave (talk) 12:17, 6 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Plurals

Note that in the British Armed Forces the plural is "sergeant majors" and not "sergeants major". That would assume that a sergeant major is a sergeant and "major" is simply a modifier. However, in Britain this is not the case. The sergeant major is a warrant officer, not a senior sergeant, and the rank or appointment is entirely separate from that of sergeant. It is a compound word (which always used to be hyphenated) and the "major" is not in this instance acting as an adjective. For an illustration of official British usage see the very bottom of this page of the London Gazette. And it isn't a new usage either: see this page from 1881. The earliest usage of "sergeant majors" in The Times is in 1822. The last of the (very occasional) usages of "sergeants major", except when referring to American NCOs, is in 1938. I'm not sure of the practice in the rest of the Commonwealth, although it was certainly identical to the British practice up to and during World War II. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:57, 8 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rank?

Is it correct to describe sergeant major as a rank? I always understood that Sergeant major is a position, not a rank.101.98.74.13 (talk) 09:37, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's an appointment of warrant officer in the Commonwealth. It's a rank elsewhere (and was also a rank in Britain until the end of the 19th century). This is all in the article. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:21, 10 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Sergeant Major vs Master Gunny U.S ?

In non military personnel terms what is the role difference between Sergeant Major and Master Gunnery Sergeant in the U.S Army or Marines? I know what it says on wikipedia but how do the ranks really differ? (In either U.S Army or Marines)

Well, it's somewhat complicated. First, you must realize that many things about the military really have no true civilian equivalents in the civilian/business/corporate/academic/government bureaucratic/law enforcement or public service sectors. One of these unique characteristics is the position and rank of sergeant major/master gunnery sergeant (USMC) and the USA counterparts of command sergeant major/sergeant major. Second, you must realize that the military is extremely hierarchial with a definite separation between officer and enlisted personnel in terms of authority, responsibility, accountability, duties, functions, etc. Third, in very general terms officers are "management" or executives, while enlisted are "labor," or employees, (and in perhaps a classic "blue collar" rank structure), range from apprentices to passed apprentices through lead workers, journeymen, team leaders, specialists, foremen, craftsmen, supervisors, master craftsmen, and superintendents, etc. Fourth, that much of the way in which military units are organized is based on history, traditions, and customs, which have been codified into U.S. law and service regulations.

So, with all that background, I will now attempt to explain: all military officers in a "command" position will normally have a senior enlisted member as their primary assistant, advisor, and second-in-command. Therefore, a lieutenant serving as a platoon commander (USMC) or platoon leader (USA) will have a "platoon sergeant" as his "deputy." At the company/battery/troop level (which consists of multiple platoons), the commander is usually a captain. This level of command rates another officer as his second-in-command, the executive officer, and a senior enlisted member as the "first sergeant." At the next level, which would be a battalion/squadron, the commander is usually a lieutenant colonel, the executive officer is usually a major, and the commander rates a staff of other officers to plan and manage various functions such as administration & personnel, intelligence & security, operations & training, logistics & maintenance, communications, supply, motor transport, medical services, and a chaplain, etc. At this level (and above) the commander has a "sergeant major" (or "command sergeant major" in USA terminology) as his "senior enlisted advisor" (SEA).

Now, the master gunnery sergeants (USMC) and sergeants major (USA) don't appear in the tables of organization until the battalion/squadron level. As opposed to the SEAs, who are in administrative leadership positions of a general nature as advisors to their commander, the master gunnery sergeants and sergeants major fill technical leadership positions as subject matter experts (SME). For example each Marine battalion has a master gunnery sergeant assigned as the "operations chief" in the battalion headquarters operations section (S-3) and each Marine aircraft squadron has a master gunnery sergeant assigned as the "maintenance chief" in the squadron's aircraft maintenance department. At higher levels of command (i.e., regiment/group and above), while there would still only be one sergeant major per headquarters, there tends to be one master gunnery sergeant for each major staff section (administration & personnel, intelligence & security, logistics & maintenance, communications, etc.) in the headquarters, or for each major functional area (aircraft maintenance, aviation supply, avionics, aviation ordnance) in an aviation logistics unit.

So, in conclusion sergeants major/command sergeants major are senior enlisted advisors and administrative leaders, while master gunnery sergeants/sergeants major are subject matter experts and technical leaders. I said up front that it was complicated. I hope this helps you better understand. CobraDragoon (talk) 22:37, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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IDF ranks

The inclusion of "Rav samal mitkadem" and "Rav samal bakhír" are a bit confusing here, in a decidedly "one of these things is not like the others" way. They're not the term "sergeant major", or any respelling or cognate term. Indeed, the rank "Rav samal" is translated (or, given as the equivalent of) "Sergeant first class". Perhaps this should be included in a separate "equivalent ranks in other forces" section. Or if there's more officially or de facto bilingual use, making that much clearer in the text, with appropriate sources. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 18:26, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]